Pellet vs Free Range/Foraging

[Florida Bullfrog]

that doesn't preclude them having preferences, like us. You asked for tips. In my experience, they are not keen on already dead animals.

Mine love fresh meat. Not just my games but my commercial layers as well. Whenever I clean a whitetail deer or wild turkey they love to eat discarded muscle and the guts. Last fall I left them an entire gut pile of a whitetail buck and they had eaten it all in a day or so.

Generally they don’t mess with rotten meat.

So, does anybody have any tips make them more carnivorous?

Offer them little bits of fresh red meat. Small cuts they can swallow whole. After doing that a few feeding sessions offer them some raw fresh meat on the bone and let them learn to pick at the bone.

I have a rooster I give feeder mice to. I started with pinkies and moved up to adults. But he already had a penchant for eating weak chicks.

 

[3KillerBs]

Now yes, these various rustic breeds are usually living along side man and enjoying the benefits of farm life.

But for most of their histories they were not living with commercial grain feeds for themselves or as a byproduct of other livestock. No such commercial foods existed.

No "commercial grain feeds" =/= not being fed. Feed for the animals was grown on the farm and animals were given access to harvested fields where there was significant spillage and waste from the harvest process.

And, in any case, when considering a farm one is considering significant acreage -- not anything like the ordinary backyard "free ranging". Especially when animal owners are in areas where they are legally required to keep the animals on their own property and may not allow them to invade either neighbors' property or public lands.

 

[Shadrach]

Mine love fresh meat. Not just my games but my commercial layers as well. Whenever I clean a whitetail deer or wild turkey they love to eat discarded muscle and the guts. Last fall I left them an entire gut pile of a whitetail buck and they had eaten it all in a day or so.

Generally they don’t mess with rotten meat.


Offer them little bits of fresh red meat. Small cuts they can swallow whole. After doing that a few feeding sessions offer them some raw fresh meat on the bone and let them learn to pick at the bone.

I have a rooster I give feeder mice to. I started with pinkies and moved up to adults. But he already had a penchant for eating weak chicks.

I gave the Ex Battery and rescues chopped sausage for supper. I'm lucky I've got any fingers left.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

No "commercial grain feeds" =/= not being fed. Feed for the animals was grown on the farm and animals were given access to harvested fields where there was significant spillage and waste from the harvest process.

And, in any case, when considering a farm one is considering significant acreage -- not anything like the ordinary backyard "free ranging". Especially when animal owners are in areas where they are legally required to keep the animals on their own property and may not allow them to invade either neighbors' property or public lands.

Part of why I stepped off this thread - too many posters are arguing against positions other posters haven't staked out for themselves. If I wanted a religious argument, I'd pick/start one, over a subject more interesting than chickens. Too much of positions as an article of faith, history and reality be damned, particularly those who view mere "survival" as the goal.

Every once in a while, someone falls from a perfectly good plane either w/o a parachute, or w/o a working parachute, and lives to tell the tale. Its not, in my view, an example we should try to emulate. Jumping down from a step stool, a short ladder, even a tree limb seems a much more reasonable level of risk taking to me. YMMV.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

No "commercial grain feeds" =/= not being fed. Feed for the animals was grown on the farm and animals were given access to harvested fields where there was significant spillage and waste from the harvest process.

And, in any case, when considering a farm one is considering significant acreage -- not anything like the ordinary backyard "free ranging". Especially when animal owners are in areas where they are legally required to keep the animals on their own property and may not allow them to invade either neighbors' property or public lands.

Its hard to keep track of who is arguing what, so I’ll speak more in general instead of my response being directed entirely at you.

The general argument seems to be “chickens have to be fed large amounts of human provided feed to either 1) survive, 2) thrive, or 3) be usefully productive to humans. We’ve discussed examples ad nauseam that refutes these points.

The point of contention now seems to be not whether chickens can be self-sustaining, but how practical it is to accomplish it.

I don’t think “its not practical to do it in a suburban back yard, therefore its not realistic for most people” can stand as a valid argument. It is not realistic to keep virtually any productive livestock in a backyard without shoveling pre-produced food to them. Take a cow for an example. All cows need are grass, water, and a mineral block. Keeping a few cows mostly self-sustaining on a modest farm is realistic and actually easy and common in real life.

If you then decided to raise a cow in a backyard or course it isn’t likely to be self-sustaining. Yet the logic doesn’t follow that “cows can’t likely be self-sustaining in a backyard, therefore cows aren’t self-sustaining animals.” We would all recognize that to be an illogical argument. Somehow that’s become the argument with chickens. “Chickens can’t sustain themselves in my urban flowerbed, therefore chickens aren’t self-sustaining animals.”

People, we’re talking about raising chickens on a farm when we talk about them being self-sustaining. That’s not rocket science or voodoo. The same kind of small farm the dirt-poor have lived on for millennia. No magic recipes of carefully grown salad plots designed to mimic commercial chicken food. Just some grass and some cows and lots of bugs and leaf litter and weeds and all the things that go along with a 19th century homestead. It is not complicated.

If you want self-sufficient chickens, grow them free range on a modest farm. You don’t need to grow them their own food or expect them to eat food you grow for other animals. Its not some super special habitat only a few can reproduce, not unless you consider a poor person’s farm something unattainable.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Now I will add that chickens, unlike cows, really can live in urban environments on their own. Feral chickens live in cities all over Florida. But they aren’t confined to any one yard. They roam and forage where they will.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Part of why I stepped off this thread - too many posters are arguing against positions other posters haven't staked out for themselves. If I wanted a religious argument, I'd pick/start one, over a subject more interesting than chickens. Too much of positions as an article of faith, history and reality be damned, particularly those who view mere "survival" as the goal.

Every once in a while, someone falls from a perfectly good plane either w/o a parachute, or w/o a working parachute, and lives to tell the tale. Its not, in my view, an example we should try to emulate. Jumping down from a step stool, a short ladder, even a tree limb seems a much more reasonable level of risk taking to me. YMMV.

I presume you’re implying that the people telling you that its common and normal for gamefowl and landrace breeds to thrive and be productive free range with little to no human care are just making that up.

I can probably give you a better example using your parachute analogy, assuming my first paragraph is accurate as to your position.

You’re like a person who’s seen very few people skydive in your lifetime. You have also for many years read accounts from other people who like you, have rarely seen or heard of people skydiving. Therefore, your position is that skydiving is a very uncommon activity and only a few dozen people engage in it a year around the world. Now here comes someone who tells you that in fact millions of humans skydive each year world-wide. You reject that assertion as “faith” because it doesn’t comport with your preconceived view on the subject.

I’m telling you its fact that gamefowl and landraces live with little to no real care free range all over the world and are productive for the humans that keep them. Its not faith, its really beyond dispute. Almost any gamefowl keeper on here who grew up with them has seen it. As have people who travel into poor places. To deny it is to simply be ignorant of this specific fact.

What evidence would you need to see to be convinced of it? Or am I not understanding what you’re implying?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I presume you’re implying that the people telling you that its common and normal for gamefowl and landrace breeds to thrive and be productive free range with little to no human care are just making that up.

I can probably give you a better example using your parachute analogy, assuming my first paragraph is accurate as to your position.

You’re like a person who’s seen very few people skydive in your lifetime. You have also for many years read accounts from other people who like you, have rarely seen or heard of people skydiving. Therefore, your position is that skydiving is a very uncommon activity and only a few dozen people engage in it a year around the world. Now here comes someone who tells you that in fact millions of humans skydive each year world-wide. You reject that assertion as “faith” because it doesn’t comport with your preconceived view on the subject.

I’m telling you its fact that gamefowl and landraces live with little to no real care free range all over the world and are productive for the humans that keep them. Its not faith, its really beyond dispute. Almost any gamefowl keeper on here who grew up with them has seen it. As have people who travel into poor places. To deny it is to simply be ignorant of this specific fact.

What evidence would you need to see to be convinced of it? Or am I not understanding what you’re implying?

you presume incorrectly. I'll leave it at that.

 

[3KillerBs]

Feral chickens live in cities all over Florida. But they aren’t confined to any one yard. They roam and forage where they will.

A comparison that is utterly useless when the topic is the "free-ranging" of domestic chickens in a suburban backyard.

We cannot legally permit our chickens to devastate our neighbors' property in search of their food, after all.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

A comparison that is utterly useless when the topic is the "free-ranging" of domestic chickens in a suburban backyard.

We cannot legally permit our chickens to devastate our neighbors' property in search of their food, after all.

Is it though? Is this discussion either by its original context or its evolution only contemplating free ranging in suburban backyards?

To be clear, that post was not remotely stating that a person should let their chickens go where they will in an urban setting. Only establishing that as a matter of biology, chickens can thrive by roaming where they will in the city or suburbia. I was qualifying my point comparing chickens and cows, because chickens can so something cows can’t in that setting.

The goal posts seems shift in this debate. Sometimes the argument is about what a chicken can and can’t biologically when left to free range, and then sometimes its about what can and can’t be done within manmade boundaries.

So lets’ summarize:

1. Chickens can thrive free range without being fed commercial feed. Not all chickens have the same biology at the nitty gritty level and some are going to be better at free range foraging for their needs than others.

2. Not all habitats are conducive for meeting a chicken’s needs, but given the world-wide historical practice of free ranging chickens to provide food sources for their owners, proper free range habitat is not rare or complicated.

3. Artificial boundaries between people in confined spaces mean that chickens cannot likely find what they need to thrive in urban back yards assuming they stay confined to a small back yard.

4. If you want to free range chickens so that they mostly feed themselves, move to a modest farm.

That’s where I see the state of the “can chickens be free ranged for their food” debate.

I take no position on the nutritional value of X or Y plant or bug or commercial feed or whether chickens need more of this or less of that. I take the view that the proof is in whether the chickens are healthy and reproducing or not. If they are doing those things for a sustained amount of time, then they’re getting what they need. More power to anyone who enjoys getting into the chemistry of it.