Plymouth Rock thread!

[Fred's Hens]

To the person who seemed insulted for their hatchery Rocks: I have both hatchery bred Rocks and breeder/heritage Rocks and I love them both, for different reasons.

In my opinion, there is not a thing wrong with having hatchery Rocks, other than they tend to die from reproductive malfunctions much more readily than a well-bred heritage bird. I've had both, was smitten with Barred Rocks when I got my first ones from Ideal. Now, all of my hatchery originals are dead, 95% of them from internal laying/egg yolk peritonitis. That goes for other common hatchery egg laying breeds as well as the Rocks, though.

I do not have that health issue with my heritage breed stock, I just don't. Their genetics are just better, overall. The hatchery birds tend to lay much larger eggs than the heritage/breeder stock that I have--that goes for both the Rocks and the Orps. I have two descended from hatchery stock Barred Rock hens who are going on 7 years old and still laying and they lay bigger eggs than my heritage Rocks (who are over 2 years old now). Wouldn't take $100 for any of them. They all have their place and they each have their strengths. My heritage Rocks are awesome hens, huge, beautiful and still with their broody tendencies, which I never saw in any of my hatchery Barred Rocks. My BBS Rocks are also very healthy hens and they lay jumbo eggs, regularly and have the friendly personality you expect from a Rock and two of my three are the broody type as well.

I have nothing to offer on the SPR front. To me, they cannot beat a gorgeous Barred Plymouth Rock in my eyes. Just not my cup of tea so I never really studied what is right or wrong in that color variety. I know who professional breeders say have the best ones, but I leave that up to them.

Good post. Cyn (Speckledhen) and I have shared our love of Rocks for many years and have also shared our disdain for ascites and other reproductive issues so common in birds that have been bred, pushed, injected with high laying genes from other breeds, etc. We've been around the block, as one might say. We've seen what the "modern" Barred Rock poser is like, bred by those who have carelessly pushed it, tweaked it, and made it into something that far, far from its heritage all for the sake of profits and production.

I'm not a spring chicken and I just prefer at this point in my life to have true Barred Rocks. It has absolutely nothing to do with snobbery or being competitive or hoity toity. It's about getting back to the Rocks my grandmother had in the 1950's where at her apron strings, I learned my husbandry. That's it. That's all it is for me. I cannot speak for others.

 

[Chickens Naturally]

Hi all. It’s time for me to introduce myself as I will surely be looking for advice, bouncing some ideas around and most probably acquiring stock! I just finished this entire thread as well as the Plymouth Rock Breeders thread. It’s been interesting, informative and rather amusing as of late, hehe.
Experience with Rocks: Well I had some Barred Rocks when I was around 10 years old, close to forty years ago. I had a few when I started keeping chickens where I am now. Not so much experience with Rocks, but a good bit with chickens in general.
About me: I used to breed some dogs and some chickens. Dang good ones too. My breeding philosophy has always been about ‘go’ not ‘show’. If you have to get out paperwork to show me the worth of your animal, don’t bother. I have done a lot of reading and studying, but I’ve also been fortunate enough to hear the wisdom of some ‘old timers’ and see what actually works. I am far from understanding genetics, but I have a fair layman’s understanding along with some experience. I have been breeding chickens for sixteen or seventeen years where I am now so I do have practical experience. That’s just a little background to express that I’m always going to see things from ‘both sides of the fence’, as I also understand the obvious need for standards and type which make a lot more sense to me when it comes to chickens as opposed to working breed dogs. If a dog is outstanding at his work, he is the right type!
I wasn’t sure about which thread to post this introduction on, but with the recent hatchery stock discussion, I thought it a good place to jump in. I am interested/planning on getting started with a heritage breed Rock (possibly Barred Rock) so I would like to get to know some of you breeders and for you to know me as well. Right now I have some hatchery Partridge Rocks reaching POL. The reason I got them was because I’m tossing around an idea I have for them to use in a project I will discuss in future posts so as not to get too far off topic here in my introduction.
Hopefully some insight will help you to understand my perspective when I ask questions and toss around ideas in the hopes that some of you knowledgeable Rock breeders can help me avoid possibly years of dead end breeding attempts, but also understand I’m going to be the oddball sometimes, perhaps looking at things from a different vantage and possibly taking the road less travelled, hehe.
In reading through the thread I was particularly interested in the ideas and reasoning in concern to crossing (inbred) strain to even another pure strain of the same variety of Rock and I totally get that. However, I’m wondering me and my ‘go’ not ‘show’ breeding perspective has a place in the world of breeding heritage Rocks? I definitely have a plan of attack for breeding, but would like to get some the thoughts of breeders on the concept. Where many (most? All?) Heritage Rock breeders seem to be primarily concerned with breeding SOP fowl and, of course, that makes total sense, my simple earthy desire is to primarily breed ‘go’ not ‘show’, good quality examples of dual purpose rocks that have high fertility, good broody mother hens with a very good genetic base.
I would accomplish this by using artificial incubation and crossing several lines of high quality Heritage (Barred Rocks?) and eventually selecting only broody mother hens who hatch and raise their own clutch. I would focus on egg shape, quality, quantity, broodiness and work on other traits to follow. I realize that this ‘line’ would have a varied genetic base, but I’m thinking in terms of the situation the Silver Penciled Rock is presently in and thinking about that. Although it would still be a HIGLY VARRIED gene pool to cross to and all the future work that would employ; how cool would it be to have a true working utility strain of fowl as an option to cross too? I’m thinking of course the Show quality type may be years or even a lifetime or more away, but size, quality, utility etc could begin to be raised and standardized within a few generations and possibly a worthy cross option for daring breeders in the very near future. Also, breeding with the goal of having true Heritage fowl that would earn their keep in my yard as healthy, fertile, broody self sustaining utility fowl even if light years away from winning any shows.
Any feedback is welcome, that’s one of the reasons why I’m here. I have been known to come across the wrong way in print because I have a frank and up front personality. I’m a smiling happy kind of guy who rarely has that problem in person however, so I can usually understand criticism without taking it personally. I’ve seen that a couple of you all are that way too as I’ve seen you tested on several occasions reading through the thread, hehe.
Mitch

 

[aoxa]

Hi all. It’s time for me to introduce myself as I will surely be looking for advice, bouncing some ideas around and most probably acquiring stock! I just finished this entire thread as well as the Plymouth Rock Breeders thread. It’s been interesting, informative and rather amusing as of late, hehe.
Experience with Rocks: Well I had some Barred Rocks when I was around 10 years old, close to forty years ago. I had a few when I started keeping chickens where I am now. Not so much experience with Rocks, but a good bit with chickens in general.
About me: I used to breed some dogs and some chickens. Dang good ones too. My breeding philosophy has always been about ‘go’ not ‘show’. If you have to get out paperwork to show me the worth of your animal, don’t bother. I have done a lot of reading and studying, but I’ve also been fortunate enough to hear the wisdom of some ‘old timers’ and see what actually works. I am far from understanding genetics, but I have a fair layman’s understanding along with some experience. I have been breeding chickens for sixteen or seventeen years where I am now so I do have practical experience. That’s just a little background to express that I’m always going to see things from ‘both sides of the fence’, as I also understand the obvious need for standards and type which make a lot more sense to me when it comes to chickens as opposed to working breed dogs. If a dog is outstanding at his work, he is the right type!
I wasn’t sure about which thread to post this introduction on, but with the recent hatchery stock discussion, I thought it a good place to jump in. I am interested/planning on getting started with a heritage breed Rock (possibly Barred Rock) so I would like to get to know some of you breeders and for you to know me as well. Right now I have some hatchery Partridge Rocks reaching POL. The reason I got them was because I’m tossing around an idea I have for them to use in a project I will discuss in future posts so as not to get too far off topic here in my introduction.
Hopefully some insight will help you to understand my perspective when I ask questions and toss around ideas in the hopes that some of you knowledgeable Rock breeders can help me avoid possibly years of dead end breeding attempts, but also understand I’m going to be the oddball sometimes, perhaps looking at things from a different vantage and possibly taking the road less travelled, hehe.
In reading through the thread I was particularly interested in the ideas and reasoning in concern to crossing (inbred) strain to even another pure strain of the same variety of Rock and I totally get that. However, I’m wondering me and my ‘go’ not ‘show’ breeding perspective has a place in the world of breeding heritage Rocks? I definitely have a plan of attack for breeding, but would like to get some the thoughts of breeders on the concept. Where many (most? All?) Heritage Rock breeders seem to be primarily concerned with breeding SOP fowl and, of course, that makes total sense, my simple earthy desire is to primarily breed ‘go’ not ‘show’, good quality examples of dual purpose rocks that have high fertility, good broody mother hens with a very good genetic base.
I would accomplish this by using artificial incubation and crossing several lines of high quality Heritage (Barred Rocks?) and eventually selecting only broody mother hens who hatch and raise their own clutch. I would focus on egg shape, quality, quantity, broodiness and work on other traits to follow. I realize that this ‘line’ would have a varied genetic base, but I’m thinking in terms of the situation the Silver Penciled Rock is presently in and thinking about that. Although it would still be a HIGLY VARRIED gene pool to cross to and all the future work that would employ; how cool would it be to have a true working utility strain of fowl as an option to cross too? I’m thinking of course the Show quality type may be years or even a lifetime or more away, but size, quality, utility etc could begin to be raised and standardized within a few generations and possibly a worthy cross option for daring breeders in the very near future. Also, breeding with the goal of having true Heritage fowl that would earn their keep in my yard as healthy, fertile, broody self sustaining utility fowl even if light years away from winning any shows.
Any feedback is welcome, that’s one of the reasons why I’m here. I have been known to come across the wrong way in print because I have a frank and up front personality. I’m a smiling happy kind of guy who rarely has that problem in person however, so I can usually understand criticism without taking it personally. I’ve seen that a couple of you all are that way too as I’ve seen you tested on several occasions reading through the thread, hehe.
Mitch

That is some introduction Mitch

I'm just going to welcome you. All of these traits PLUS meeting the SOP for showing is what I am aiming for.

I'm very happy to report my new line of Rocks is indeed broody. First one has gone broody and is setting on 14 eggs. She could fit more she is a very big girl. Hope you find your perfect fit. I am very much enjoying mine!

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Hi all. It’s time for me to introduce myself as I will surely be looking for advice, bouncing some ideas around and most probably acquiring stock! I just finished this entire thread as well as the Plymouth Rock Breeders thread. It’s been interesting, informative and rather amusing as of late, hehe.
Experience with Rocks: Well I had some Barred Rocks when I was around 10 years old, close to forty years ago. I had a few when I started keeping chickens where I am now. Not so much experience with Rocks, but a good bit with chickens in general.
About me: I used to breed some dogs and some chickens. Dang good ones too. My breeding philosophy has always been about ‘go’ not ‘show’. If you have to get out paperwork to show me the worth of your animal, don’t bother. I have done a lot of reading and studying, but I’ve also been fortunate enough to hear the wisdom of some ‘old timers’ and see what actually works. I am far from understanding genetics, but I have a fair layman’s understanding along with some experience. I have been breeding chickens for sixteen or seventeen years where I am now so I do have practical experience. That’s just a little background to express that I’m always going to see things from ‘both sides of the fence’, as I also understand the obvious need for standards and type which make a lot more sense to me when it comes to chickens as opposed to working breed dogs. If a dog is outstanding at his work, he is the right type!
I wasn’t sure about which thread to post this introduction on, but with the recent hatchery stock discussion, I thought it a good place to jump in. I am interested/planning on getting started with a heritage breed Rock (possibly Barred Rock) so I would like to get to know some of you breeders and for you to know me as well. Right now I have some hatchery Partridge Rocks reaching POL. The reason I got them was because I’m tossing around an idea I have for them to use in a project I will discuss in future posts so as not to get too far off topic here in my introduction.
Hopefully some insight will help you to understand my perspective when I ask questions and toss around ideas in the hopes that some of you knowledgeable Rock breeders can help me avoid possibly years of dead end breeding attempts, but also understand I’m going to be the oddball sometimes, perhaps looking at things from a different vantage and possibly taking the road less travelled, hehe.
In reading through the thread I was particularly interested in the ideas and reasoning in concern to crossing (inbred) strain to even another pure strain of the same variety of Rock and I totally get that. However, I’m wondering me and my ‘go’ not ‘show’ breeding perspective has a place in the world of breeding heritage Rocks? I definitely have a plan of attack for breeding, but would like to get some the thoughts of breeders on the concept. Where many (most? All?) Heritage Rock breeders seem to be primarily concerned with breeding SOP fowl and, of course, that makes total sense, my simple earthy desire is to primarily breed ‘go’ not ‘show’, good quality examples of dual purpose rocks that have high fertility, good broody mother hens with a very good genetic base.
I would accomplish this by using artificial incubation and crossing several lines of high quality Heritage (Barred Rocks?) and eventually selecting only broody mother hens who hatch and raise their own clutch. I would focus on egg shape, quality, quantity, broodiness and work on other traits to follow. I realize that this ‘line’ would have a varied genetic base, but I’m thinking in terms of the situation the Silver Penciled Rock is presently in and thinking about that. Although it would still be a HIGLY VARRIED gene pool to cross to and all the future work that would employ; how cool would it be to have a true working utility strain of fowl as an option to cross too? I’m thinking of course the Show quality type may be years or even a lifetime or more away, but size, quality, utility etc could begin to be raised and standardized within a few generations and possibly a worthy cross option for daring breeders in the very near future. Also, breeding with the goal of having true Heritage fowl that would earn their keep in my yard as healthy, fertile, broody self sustaining utility fowl even if light years away from winning any shows.
Any feedback is welcome, that’s one of the reasons why I’m here. I have been known to come across the wrong way in print because I have a frank and up front personality. I’m a smiling happy kind of guy who rarely has that problem in person however, so I can usually understand criticism without taking it personally. I’ve seen that a couple of you all are that way too as I’ve seen you tested on several occasions reading through the thread, hehe.
Mitch

Mitch....

Welcome to the "Hard Heads"....I mean Rock thread

If you have no intentions of showing and that seems to be what I get from your message, just a good utility bird that "looks like a Rock" then I think you can certainly be successful with your plan. One issue many breeders face (especially with much older established lines) is a lack of fertility, hatchability and vigor.

With your plan of crossing multiple "strains" of the same variety, those "issues" will quickly go away

One note on broodiness, at least in my birds, give them over a yr to show you if they have the tendency to brood. NOT ONE of my Columbian Rocks was broody in 2012, BUT, out of 8 pullets I kept from last yr, 3 have brooded this yr, one of them twice. I don't know if that holds true for other folks or not, just what I've experienced here

Good luck and keep us informed as to your progress!

 

[Chickens Naturally]

That is some introduction Mitch

I'm just going to welcome you. All of these traits PLUS meeting the SOP for showing is what I am aiming for.

I'm very happy to report my new line of Rocks is indeed broody. First one has gone broody and is setting on 14 eggs. She could fit more she is a very big girl. Hope you find your perfect fit. I am very much enjoying mine!

Yes, I’m quite thorough, hehe. That’s great about your line and a very nice one BTW! I have been taking some mental notes about different lines in reading through the thread and noticed that not many were broody and others had reached the stage of fertility issues etc. You would be a great source have you thought about moving down to South Carolina?

 

[Fred's Hens]

Mitch, welcome. You have an honest approach. It is transparent.

You might be surprised, or at least pleased to note, that many, many of us share your desire for a thrifty, hard working Rock. To me? That is the quintessential Rock. The SOP was written by and for folks who shared those desires. The Rock didn't storm the midwest and the rest of rural America by being a sissy. No sir. No way. The work ethic of a true bred Rock will astound you, I can assure you. They should be, must be bred to work, grow, tend to business and be true Rocks.

Welcome aboard.

 

[Chickens Naturally]

Mitch....

Welcome to the "Hard Heads"....I mean Rock thread

If you have no intentions of showing and that seems to be what I get from your message, just a good utility bird that "looks like a Rock" then I think you can certainly be successful with your plan. One issue many breeders face (especially with much older established lines) is a lack of fertility, hatchability and vigor.

With your plan of crossing multiple "strains" of the same variety, those "issues" will quickly go away

One note on broodiness, at least in my birds, give them over a yr to show you if they have the tendency to brood. NOT ONE of my Columbian Rocks was broody in 2012, BUT, out of 8 pullets I kept from last yr, 3 have brooded this yr, one of them twice. I don't know if that holds true for other folks or not, just what I've experienced here

Good luck and keep us informed as to your progress!

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, like I said in my introduction, I know a lil bit about chickens lol. Your line is getting the benefits of the outsourced new blood it received. I definitely would have a constant eye out for any close to SOP little fowl that jumped out of the egg under Mom and of course I've started with quality stock. I would still be qualifying every bird, just shifting focus first to utility. I've also noticed over the years that if you put a lot of birds on the ground you can often be very pleasantly surprised. I don't want it to 'look like a Rock' or I'd just get Hatchery mutts. I want it to 'Be a Rock' and 'Work like a Rock', but your right...while still a concern...winning shows would be the last concern. Is that feasible or a pipe dream?

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, like I said in my introduction, I know a lil bit about chickens lol. Your line is getting the benefits of the outsourced new blood it received. I definitely would have a constant eye out for any close to SOP little fowl that jumped out of the egg under Mom and of course I've started with quality stock. I would still be qualifying every bird, just shifting focus first to utility. I've also noticed over the years that if you put a lot of birds on the ground you can often be very pleasantly surprised. I don't want it to 'look like a Rock' or I'd just get Hatchery mutts. I want it to 'Be a Rock' and 'Work like a Rock', but your right...while still a concern...winning shows would be the last concern. Is that feasible or a pipe dream?

A pipe dream???!!!! NEVER....In my world (to borrow a paraphrased line from the Good Book) All things are possible with God

Now, you will probably sacrifice "perfect coloration" to achieve what you are looking to do....but in the words of many a good breeder, ya gotta build the barn before you can paint it. I would guess you might mess up some of the "perfect barring" seen in some exhibition lines, but if that works for you, it will still be a Rock

 

[speckledhen]

Hello, Mitch. Best of luck in your endeavors.

The hard working Rock that Fred is talking about is embodied in my Dottie, who takes her two chicks far and wide on this wooded mountain property. I must go searching for them when it's time for them to come home, at least if it's before she as mama decides it's time for them to come back to the coop. They've been schooled, let me tell you. They have plenty of cover in which to hide, but they work this place like it's a paying job. The 9 week old chicks are 1/2 Delaware as that is the only LF rooster I have at the moment, another very industrious breed, and the crisp barring of the Marvin Stukel line even shines through most of the crosses.

Both my hatchery and heritage BRs work over this property very well when allowed to free range. They don't stick close to home, that's for sure.

My first BR rooster love was a big old McMurray guy, if some of you older members remember my Hawkeye. His best traits were size and temperament, but other than that, he looked pretty much like most hatchery BR roosters look. He made me love Barred Rock roosters, in particular, but I cannot deny the draw of the great quality old line Barred Plymouth Rock male. This was Rex as a "teenager" before he hit his full size. Later on, as an adult, he went on to his reward defending his hens from a poisonous snake at Scott's house, but I could look at him for hours and hours. This is why we love the old fashioned BRs. Simply eye candy.

 

[Chickens Naturally]

Mitch, welcome. You have an honest approach. It is transparent.

You might be surprised, or at least pleased to note, that many, many of us share your desire for a thrifty, hard working Rock. To me? That is the quintessential Rock. The SOP was written by and for folks who shared those desires. The Rock didn't storm the midwest and the rest of rural America by being a sissy. No sir. No way. The work ethic of a true bred Rock will astound you, I can assure you. They should be, must be bred to work, grow, tend to business and be true Rocks.

Welcome aboard.

Thank You for the welcome! Forgive me, I'm not good with everyone's names and I'm not sure of the most efficient way to 'reply' with posting etc, yet, but I just read another post from 'Yard Full of Rocks' and I'm going to reply to it, but address your post also. Thanks!