Plymouth Rock thread!

[Yard full o' rocks]

I hear this all the time from Jamie Carson, who has taken to mentoring me since I started showing for the first time last year. Always telling me to go for the WHITES. I think they are beautiful birds, but I do prefer my Barred over all other varieties. Different strokes I guess.

The whites always seem to do the best in any varieties. Why is that? Why do whites tend to have better type in most breeds?

I totally agree with Wynette and Fred....compared to patterned varieties, whites are BIG and easier to get the color correct

I too raise patterned birds and I do it because I love the variety and have resigned myself to the fact they may NEVER win a show.....that's ok, because I know where I started, what I started with and how far they've come. To me, that's the fun in raising them.

I sat for nearly 2 hours last night (partly just to enjoy an adult beverage after a CRAPPY day), but to make my final selections of females to keep for the upcoming breeding season. I've promised out 3 trios and I need to be selecting those as well.

It was SO difficult to just keep my eyes on the 4 key areas I was selecting for this year; long, flat backs; good width from front to back, good tail spread and proper lift and nice front ends. Inevitably, my mine would wander...."oh wow, would you look at her hackle color"....."oh, I never really noticed this girl has a little white edging on her main tail feathers"...."ooopps, the color in the wing primaries of this one is not so good"......I think all those kind of things distract us who raise patterned birds and NO DOUBT, I have mistakenly kept a wrong individual because I was enamored by their color....I'm trying really hard this year to do better.

I'm only keeping 2 older hens and 3 pullets from this years hatch. After hatching 6-7 dozen, only keeping 3 is tough, but I'm focused on keeping only the absolute BEST three and that's it. Will individually breed each one and do it all over again next year....."same bat time, same bat channel"

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Based upon my selelctions from this year....my goals for next year (based on where I see much needed improvements in my birds is)

1. In the males.....longer backs, fuller tails with better lift and improved front ends

2. In the females (which are the better of the two currently).....consistency in length of back, permanently "lost" cushion, "set" front ends and underlines......and well, the feathering could be a tad tighter too

I am a firm believe in setting a "plan". In my opinion if you fail to plan, you plan to fail

We'll see next year if I made the right selections and if I set up the right breedings to accomplish these goals...time will tell

 

[Robert Blosl]

Scott I am glad you enjoyed your two hours with your birds last night. You can learn so much over time doing this. Color is a bug a boom in breeding these rocks. You got to build the barn first then paint the bird. Once you get the type right size if possible and in some colors of rocks like partridge and silvers they are not up to size to whites and barred but you just got to hammer away at type. Flip Wilson had a show in the 60s and he had a phrase:
WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET.

In breeding chickens what you see is not always what you get WHY? You have five generations some feel puling for you and this female with the off color in her wing may not show one chick with that fault next year. It might pop up three to five years from now but you then have your type fixed and you cull that bird or if she is a super star female it may only be a half or one point fault and no big deal.
You always have to compensate for the faults. If both parents have the same fault you can fix this and O boy are you in trouble.
In regards to the Silver Pencilled males comb. If you have some females who are not his sisters you can mate a good combed female to him and then watch the chicks from this mating. Pick a nice pullet with a good comb as you can and then mate it back to him the next year. You could then again select another female from that mating and do it again. You can take his son and mate him back to his mother and then again selcect a ckl with a much improved comb the good values from his sire maybe better a half or a point better then mate him back to his mother or her sister.

All kinds of possablyitys. How would you like to be a good breeder and have a bunch of show buyers come to your farm with pockets full of money and buy all your top40 chickens and leave you with then with faults on them Then you sit down in your chair look them over put your matings together with their faults then next year the money people come back and they can’t be leave what they see. We cleaned you out and left you with culls and her you go again with super star show chickens. I have seen this done with some of the old time great breeders when they where in their late 80s and did not show anymore.

However most smart breeders hide some of their birds or breed from old cock birds and hens hidden away from these point chasers. I can use that word on here cant I there are no point chasers on this site.
Just guys and girls wanting to learn how to breed this old Breed Plymouth Rocks.
White rocks are the original spin off of barred rocks they are true to the breed from the 1880s. That is why they are so popular. The barreds are next but the barring seems to screw up the tails on the males and makes them slow to mature
The buffs are not pure Plymouth Rocks. They where spin offs over the lat 50 years from Buff Orps and Buff Rocks we had around. The Columbians that Scott has are a cross of White Rocks and Light Brahmas about 15 or 20 years ago. However, I disagree if you produce females like the one standing in that gate with good white rock type and color in three to five years they will be on Champion Row. The bantams have done it so can these Canada birds. Just got to put breeding pressure on type.
The poor Partridge and Silvers I have no clue. I am sure they are mixed up Brahma blood with what has been around. They are not descendents of the barred rocks or the whites. Maybe someone over the last 50 years has crossed something into them. That’s all I can figure out over the years studding and reading old Plymouth Rock Monthly’s. You just got to start with what you have and try to move them up word. In some colors it will take three to five year little baby step goals. You may try to improve one family for one thing and another family for another thing then cross them in three to five years and blend them together. Maybe there is a net work of two or three partners working together then every four years you exchange a bird to help you. That’s what I have in my Red bantams. I have been working on size he has been working on head points. He has his now with near perfect five point combs. This year I will cross his line into my line and I should have nice clean head on my line in two to three years. He now is going to work for four years on color. I will work on head points, size and then try to shrink them down one more oz in four years.
Hope this explains a little history of Plymouth Rocks and why they are not easy to bree for. Most important thing is to have fun. Enjoy them and know it’s a long road down to improvement on some of these colors. That is why it’s important to get the very highest scoring birds you can buy to save you money and time to improve them. Sorry for the long message. Maybe this will help some of you but get some and enjoy them and be HAPPY.

 

[Silver Rock]

Scott I am glad you enjoyed your two hours with your birds last night. You can learn so much over time doing this. Color is a bug a boom in breeding these rocks. You got to build the barn first then paint the bird. Once you get the type right size if possible and in some colors of rocks like partridge and silvers they are not up to size to whites and barred but you just got to hammer away at type. Flip Wilson had a show in the 60s and he had a phrase:
WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET.

In breeding chickens what you see is not always what you get WHY? You have five generations some feel puling for you and this female with the off color in her wing may not show one chick with that fault next year. It might pop up three to five years from now but you then have your type fixed and you cull that bird or if she is a super star female it may only be a half or one point fault and no big deal.
You always have to compensate for the faults. If both parents have the same fault you can fix this and O boy are you in trouble.
In regards to the Silver Pencilled males comb. If you have some females who are not his sisters you can mate a good combed female to him and then watch the chicks from this mating. Pick a nice pullet with a good comb as you can and then mate it back to him the next year. You could then again select another female from that mating and do it again. You can take his son and mate him back to his mother and then again selcect a ckl with a much improved comb the good values from his sire maybe better a half or a point better then mate him back to his mother or her sister.

All kinds of possablyitys. How would you like to be a good breeder and have a bunch of show buyers come to your farm with pockets full of money and buy all your top40 chickens and leave you with then with faults on them Then you sit down in your chair look them over put your matings together with their faults then next year the money people come back and they can’t be leave what they see. We cleaned you out and left you with culls and her you go again with super star show chickens. I have seen this done with some of the  old time great breeders when they where in their late 80s and did not show anymore.

However most smart breeders hide some of their birds or breed from old cock birds and hens hidden away from these point chasers. I can use that word on here cant I there are no point chasers on this site.
Just guys and girls wanting to learn how to breed this old Breed Plymouth Rocks.
White rocks are the original spin off of barred rocks they are true to the breed from the 1880s. That is why they are so popular. The barreds are next but the barring seems to screw up the tails on the males and makes them slow to mature
The buffs are not pure Plymouth Rocks. They where spin offs over the lat 50 years from Buff Orps and Buff Rocks we had around. The Columbians that Scott has are a cross of White Rocks and Light Brahmas about 15 or 20 years ago. However, I disagree if you produce females like the one standing in that gate with good white rock type and color in three to five years they will be on Champion Row. The bantams have done it so can these Canada birds. Just got to put breeding pressure on type.
The poor Partridge and Silvers I have no clue. I am sure they are mixed up Brahma blood with what has been around. They are not descendents of the barred rocks or the whites. Maybe someone over the last 50 years has crossed something into them. That’s all I can figure out over the years studding and reading old Plymouth Rock Monthly’s. You just got to start with what you have and try to move them up word. In some colors it will take three to five year little baby step goals. You may try to improve one family for one thing and another family for another thing then cross them in three to five years and blend them together. Maybe there is a net work of two or three partners working together then every four years you exchange a bird to help you. That’s what I have in my Red bantams. I have been working on size he has been working on head points. He has his now with near perfect five point combs. This year I will cross his line into my line and I should have nice clean head on my line in two to three years. He now is going to work for four years on color. I will work on head points, size and then try to shrink them down one more oz in four years.
Hope this explains a little history of Plymouth Rocks and why they are not easy to bree for. Most important thing is to have fun. Enjoy them and know it’s a long road down to improvement on some of these colors. That is why it’s important to get the very highest scoring birds you can buy to save you money and time to improve them. Sorry for the long message. Maybe this will help some of you but get some and enjoy them and be HAPPY.

Thank you Bob for the advice on the comb issue. I will put this advice to go use.

 

[catdaddyfro]

I hear this all the time from Jamie Carson, who has taken to mentoring me since I started showing for the first time last year. Always telling me to go for the WHITES. I think they are beautiful birds, but I do prefer my Barred over all other varieties. Different strokes I guess.

The whites always seem to do the best in any varieties. Why is that? Why do whites tend to have better type in most breeds?

well you only have about maybe quarter or less of the problems to fix on a white bird

make sure its solid white(no brassiness or smut) and has the right type for the breed
the proper color feet, nice red comb of whatever style the variety sports, no droopy wings or high tail set (lower gets further along than higher usually)
looks like it weighs within the specified realms of the breed, as nobodies gonna weigh it for exacts more than likely
mark the coop tag correctly on gender and breed

and if all that adds up to higher points than any of the other whites you win or unless someone right close there has just done an incredible job on a patterned/ multicolored bird, is all

Jeff

 

[BGMatt]

well you only have about maybe quarter or less of the problems to fix on a white bird

make sure its solid white(no brassiness or smut) and has the right type for the breed
the proper color feet, nice red comb of whatever style the variety sports, no droopy wings or high tail set (lower gets further along than higher usually)
looks like it weighs within the specified realms of the breed, as nobodies gonna weigh it for exacts more than likely
mark the coop tag correctly on gender and breed

and if all that adds up to higher points than any of the other whites you win or unless someone right close there has just done an incredible job on a patterned/ multicolored bird, is all

Jeff

White is also bright if you get it clean and it just catches the eye. Judges are human just like the rest of us. You look down a line and if someone has this bright almost glowing white bird it stands out. Back in the 90's I experienced this with my Langshans, so both solid color Black and White, the Blacks had better type and size, but if I had a White in condition it would beat my Blacks (and then lose to a Brahma or Cochin, but that's beside the point).

White birds in the yard can be boring, a white bird properly groomed for the show room regardless of breed is stunning.

 

[Silver Rock]

Anyone interested in the origin, history and breeding of the Plymouth Rocks will find this book very valuable. It is one of my favorites.

The American Breeds of Poultry
by Frank L. Platt in the year of 1921.

http://books.google.com/books?id=JN...utput=html_text&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0

 

[har]

That rooster that I saw when I bought my Duckworth ckl looked just them two roosters in that picture of Mr. Duckworths roosters.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Scott you where interested in some good Columbian Rock Bantams. This is a male from Calif called one wattle.

I posted some pictures of his off spring on a new thread for Heritage Bantams. They belong to Danny Feathers of Okla.
This is one of the best typed male Rock Bantams of color I have seen. BOB

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Scott you where interested in some good Columbian Rock Bantams. This is a male from Calif called one wattle.

I posted some pictures of his off spring on a new thread for Heritage Bantams. They belong to Danny Feathers of Okla.
This is one of the best typed male Rock Bantams of color I have seen. BOB

Thanks, I know Danny. I'll email him and ask if its ok to give someone his contact info

THANKS