Post Phoenix Pics Please

[onagadori]

So what does this tell me about my white roo? Anything? Is this a good thing? I have seen other birchens on here and they are pretty. Do I still need SDW hen? And what do I do with her again if I do? Can you tell anything about my white chicks? Sorry about all the questions.

No it doesn't tell me anything about him.. Your hens could be melanized birchens.. Or birchen/E.. if they are black.. It would be impossible to know since birchen will dominate duckwing.. Does your white roo have green legs or blue? I think birchens are nice.. penciled, spangled, and laced can all be made on birchen bases.. And yes, they are pretty.. I have one with a pattern gene that extends the lacing all over her not just on the breast.. Very pretty.. You need the silver duckwing to figure out what your roo is for sure.. You breed her to your roo and then post the pics of the offspring. I can tell from your white chicks that they have dark legs and are thus more than likely red duckwings or creams from the kriner line of cy's. If your roo has dark legs I would assume he is red duckwing or cream underneath.. Generally roosters with red bases in this line will have a gold cast on the hackles, saddles, and shoulders.... On whites that are not from these lines. Such as my lines, you get white chicks with white/yellow legs, and a characteristic (onagadori trait) dot in the back of the head.. See pic below.

The whites on the far right with the blue dots in the back of thier heads are blue red birchens or blues.. I know because the mother is a blue birchen (rec. white) and the dad is a bbred (rec. white) yellow leg.. the ones without dots are white yokohamas.. Chick on the far right that is black with red casting is a birchen based like yours..

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

mopar,
dont you have a silver birchen hen too? And are you sure what all these hatched from?
Reason I ask, is the gold birchens I have are by products from Cy's lavender project too, so birchen is in them too. He was telling me on those, with his breeding he gets solid black hens and these gold birchen roos during the process ( 9 years I think so far on them) I got the same last year when crossed back to small blacks for type improvements.

If I remember right, you had silver birchen, white and lavender on top of Toni's LF black right?
would help if you had control over the eggs so you could know for sure who laid what and what hatched from them.
If you have that silver birchen still, just use her instead of a silver duckwing...pretty much tells the same either way.
If that birchen was one from me, it carries rec white too.
The white hen from me is over silver dw, or an out side shot at birchen, so this could be why you are getting so many whites, 2 of your 4 are white or carry rec white.

So that's pretty much all your hens, except Toni's that do or possibly carry birchen also.

By the way, that's the exact same chick pattern these LF blacks have that I was talking about yesterday too. Looks just like a brown red, but they grow into these red tinted blacks??

 

[onagadori]

question, isn't birchen dominant over duckwing.. So if you the roo is a duckwing under the white and she breeds to a birchen, how will she know.? So if she breeds to a birchen, all the offspring would be birchen.... All she would know was that the mother was birchen..
Male: Female:


black patterned silver duckwing

Help, pick color from list


black patterned silver -necked/birchen

Help, pick color from list



E Extension of black E:
Co Columbia Co:
Db Darkbrown Db:
Pg Pattern gene Pg:
Ml Melanotic Ml:
Cha Charcoal Cha:
Mh Mahogany Mh:
Di Dilute Di:
Ig Inhibitor of Gold Ig:
Cb Champagneblond Cb:
S Silver S:
B Barring B:
Choc Chocolate Choc:
I Dom. White I:
Bl Blue Bl:
Mo Mottling Mo:
C Rec. White C:
Lav Lavender Lav:
Hide Genotypes About Buff About the Pictures Help, other Calculators Henk69.nl
Genotypes:
ERe+ co+co+ db+db+ pg+pg+ ml+ml+ Cha+Cha+ mh+mh+ di+di+ Ig+Ig+ cb+cb+ i+i+ bl+bl+ Lav+Lav+ C+C+ Mo+Mo+ b+- S- Choc+-
Gender = Female, Ratio = 1/2 = 50%, minimum of animals to breed: 2
black patterned silver -necked/birchen
Continue with this Female | Select for later crossings
ERe+ co+co+ db+db+ pg+pg+ ml+ml+ Cha+Cha+ mh+mh+ di+di+ Ig+Ig+ cb+cb+ i+i+ bl+bl+ Lav+Lav+ C+C+ Mo+Mo+ b+b+ SS Choc+Choc+
Gender = Male, Ratio = 1/2 = 50%, minimum of animals to breed: 2
black patterned silver -necked/birchen
Continue with this Male | Select for later crossings

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

yep you're right there Amanda, yes it is dominate over duckwing so scratch that one at least for pattern, could still help on color though, red or silver under it. So it will help in that regard was what I ment. Pretty much all white phoenix are 90% over duckwing anyway due to birchen being pretty darn rare in pheonix outside the few of us that have them. So it would be safe to assume he was duckwing based for now til she finds a hen to try him over.
Colorwsie though, it will show the following results. So at least that much can be told right now with what she has to work with.

silver birchen hen to the male if silver based = all chicks will be silver
silver birchen hen to the male if red based = brown red girls and gold birchen males
silver birchen hen to male if gold based = 1/2 silver, and brown red pullets gold males

This way you can at least get a start to figuring out what he is masking, color's half of it, pattern is the other half.

ETA,

Another thought for the duckwing base in the male being most probable is the fact that all the hens from these have faint salmon breast in them. Will get a pic if I can between thunderstorms today, looks like a silver pyle pretty much. But if they were birchen based, they wouldnt have that. I know CY has multiple lines, but she and I got these about the same time, and Cy told me he was down to just these few when I got mine from him, so she most likely has the same birds I have...could be another line, but doubt it.... I've got mine in right now with a silver dw nm hen. Set a bunch last week from them...will try to remember to follow up with what hatches from them in 2 weeks.

 

[onagadori]

yep you're right there Amanda, yes it is dominate over duckwing so scratch that one at least for pattern, could still help on color though, red or silver under it. So it will help in that regard was what I ment. Pretty much all white phoenix are 90% over duckwing anyway due to birchen being pretty darn rare in pheonix outside the few of us that have them. So it would be safe to assume he was duckwing based for now til she finds a hen to try him over.
Colorwsie though, it will show the following results. So at least that much can be told right now with what she has to work with.

silver birchen hen to the male if silver based = all chicks will be silver
silver birchen hen to the male if red based = brown red girls and gold birchen males
silver birchen hen to male if gold based = 1/2 silver, and brown red pullets gold males

This way you can at least get a start to figuring out what he is masking, color's half of it, pattern is the other half.

ETA,

Another thought for the duckwing base in the male being most probable is the fact that all the hens from these have faint salmon breast in them. Will get a pic if I can between thunderstorms today, looks like a silver pyle pretty much. But if they were birchen based, they wouldnt have that. I know CY has multiple lines, but she and I got these about the same time, and Cy told me he was down to just these few when I got mine from him, so she most likely has the same birds I have...could be another line, but doubt it.... I've got mine in right now with a silver dw nm hen. Set a bunch last week from them...will try to remember to follow up with what hatches from them in 2 weeks.

You are right about cy not having many.. At least in the kriner whites.. He had a white roo left that had messed up his foot.. He mailed it a few weeks ago here to texas to be Artificially inseminated. I was offered to work with the lines, but am currently working with the yellow leg whites from Cy that also need to be bred in numbers. I figured it was best to keep the two lines separate. I had a kriner type white emerge from my breedings this year working with cy lines.. I will probably cull it to a friend who works with them and is doing the Artificial insemination for Cy..

You are right about that telling her what color the roo is as far as red, golden, or silver.. But it won't tell about pattern.. I have a wonderful silver ginger hen that came from a cy white rooster.. The rooster was a kriner white with green legs. So I don't really know. I don't work extensively with the kriner whites and am going to leave that to the experts. I do know that the mother was not a ginger, yet the offspring came out ginger.. So the cy white that was used was more than likely a silver ginger.. Which is very interesting to me.. I always assumed that that particular rec. white was not sufficient to cover autosomal red and that is why it showed up on the hen's breasts. Like you said.. Probably silver hens. But I have also heard reports of the lines producing hens with red on their faces, down the neck and on the breast.. So I assume it could be on a ginger or bbred hen also. Test matings will be required to discover if this is the case or not and I believe those will be done. I would like to know how your chicks come out.. I find the genetics of these birds very exciting indeed.. Thank you for your input and I look forward to your discoveries about your roo..

 

[Soli]

Here's some pics I took last night of the oldest cockerel from the white roo over a BBR Phoenix hen. I think he looks pretty good for being right at 4 months old. He wasn't real cooperative with being photographed - it was after dark and I had to wake him up to take his picture....he's a very sweet natured bird, though.

 

[onagadori]

Here's some pics I took last night of the oldest cockerel from the white roo over a BBR Phoenix hen. I think he looks pretty good for being right at 4 months old. He wasn't real cooperative with being photographed - it was after dark and I had to wake him up to take his picture....he's a very sweet natured bird, though.

Very nice solii.. I love his fine feathering.. Color is brilliant also.. Have you gotten any blue silver cockerels?. they are very pretty also..

 

[onagadori]

Soli, Could you post the pic of the splash blue red here.. He is very pretty! Is he from Howl, and the blue red hen I sent you? I have howl's Father here... His mother was a beautiful blue hen from my blue line of breeding. Several generations out of the Hotta whites.. I will guess since His dad is BB Red, and the mother was a blue, he is more than likely a blue red or blue gold duckwing under the white.. Maybe that helps with your plans.. I have his full brother in a breeding pen over a full cy yellow leg white hen, a David Roger's silver hen, the full sister to my Silver boy and His sister from the original mating Howl is from.. Keep the updates coming. Very enjoyable.. thank you.

 

[Soli]

Yes, I have two blue silver cockerels and one pullet in the first batch - they're about a week or two behind this guy in age - one of them has really long legs and I'm curious as to how he'll look when mature. I'll try to get photos of them tomorrow if the weather is good.

Out of the second batch that is mostly out of the hens I got from you, I have several silver pullets and some really light gold cockerels - they look almost silver, but when you put them next to a silver, their hackles are cream rather than white. They are only about 2 months old right now - I need to update my photos from that batch soon, but the weather has been miserable lately. The silver birchen pullet is coming along *really* nice.

 

[Soli]

Soli, Could you post the pic of the splash blue red here.. He is very pretty! Is he from Howl, and the blue red hen I sent you? I have howl's Father here... His mother was a beautiful blue hen from my blue line of breeding. Several generations out of the Hotta whites.. I will guess since His dad is BB Red, and the mother was a blue, he is more than likely a blue red or blue gold duckwing under the white.. Maybe that helps with your plans.. I have his full brother in a breeding pen over a full cy yellow leg white hen, a David Roger's silver hen, the full sister to my Silver boy and His sister from the original mating Howl is from.. Keep the updates coming. Very enjoyable.. thank you.

I'll try to get a new photo of him tonight, as he has matured a lot since the last photo I posted. His coloring is very interesting, but I imagine as he matures it will look more like a splash duckwing than the mottled appearance he has now. He is from Howl and the blue red hen you sent, yes. I expected that cross to produce smaller birds but he's the largest cockerel in his batch. I just hatched another splash chick last week, not sure if it's a pullet or cockerel yet as it's only a week old.