Post Your Chocolates, Dun ,Khaki , Platinum Bird Pics

[DRGLENNON]

That looks "pumpkin", not dun. Are there any coco pop's in the pedigree? There are no duns in Serama's but there "are" chocolates. Definitely not chocolate so I would guess, what you're seeing is faint coloring from coco pop (pumpkin coloring).
There has never been a confirmed dun in the Serama breed

I have been reading some older post and have a better understanding of cocopop now. The pair was both sire by Lulins Cafe Con Leche with different hens(also from cocopop line). I'm hoping to bring back in more of the coco color. The second pullet linda and lois wasn't sure why it popped up in one of the white pairs so I assumed maybe dun. I'm really not sure.I believe they are going to do some breeding with other pullets from the same hen to try to find out. His whites have been so white it was a surprise but dun(If thats what it is) color is coming from one hen I do want to get a black pair to help with gene sorting. you seem to be very knowledgeable and I would really love to pick your brain along the way. Most people would assume the color came from a miss breeding but they are extremely careful and only single pair mate. After seeing there breeding setup I don't think that the problem. The brown color on the pullets is different.. Thanks for your response!


THIS IS COCOPOP PULLET



THIS PULLET IS FROM A WHITE/WHITE PAIR

 

[jeremy]

Mauve (Recessive Choc + Blue) bantam Orp pullet.

 

[DRGLENNON]

Mauve (Recessive Choc + Blue) bantam Orp pullet.

Very nice!

 

[smoothmule]

I have been reading some older post and have a better understanding of cocopop now. The pair was both sire by Lulins Cafe Con Leche with different hens(also from cocopop line). I'm hoping to bring back in more of the coco color. The second pullet linda and lois wasn't sure why it popped up in one of the white pairs so I assumed maybe dun. I'm really not sure.I believe they are going to do some breeding with other pullets from the same hen to try to find out. His whites have been so white it was a surprise but dun(If thats what it is) color is coming from one hen I do want to get a black pair to help with gene sorting. you seem to be very knowledgeable and I would really love to pick your brain along the way. Most people would assume the color came from a miss breeding but they are extremely careful and only single pair mate. After seeing there breeding setup I don't think that the problem. The brown color on the pullets is different.. Thanks for your response!


THIS IS COCOPOP PULLET



THIS PULLET IS FROM A WHITE/WHITE PAIR

Just obviously not dun, visually and the fact that there are no dun Serama's. There has never been a single "verified" dun Serama ever. Chocolate, yes....dun, no. I raised the chocolates for years, still have one hen. There are a Lot of color combinations that "look" dun but they are mixes, as most Serama's are. Yours are so obviously pumpkin (Cocopop), but go ahead and test them if you need to prove it to yourself. I've been there and done that. Dun is a gene, not a mix of genes so it's "very" easy to verify. They way the gene for dun works, it's like blue. One dose looks chocolate, 2 genes and it's paler but the coloring is sort of taupe, not the coloring of your hens tail.

 

[smoothmule]

I have duns, Sumatra's. Maybe this will help show what dun looks like. The shade can vary a little, but not that much. If they are Khaki (2 genes for dun) then they are a paler color but more silvery.

 

[DRGLENNON]

Just obviously not dun, visually and the fact that there are no dun Serama's. There has never been a single "verified" dun Serama ever. Chocolate, yes....dun, no. I raised the chocolates for years, still have one hen. There are a Lot of color combinations that "look" dun but they are mixes, as most Serama's are. Yours are so obviously pumpkin (Cocopop), but go ahead and test them if you need to prove it to yourself. I've been there and done that. Dun is a gene, not a mix of genes so it's "very" easy to verify. They way the gene for dun works, it's like blue. One dose looks chocolate, 2 genes and it's paler but the coloring is sort of taupe, not the coloring of your hens tail.

The pullet I'm questioning is not cocopop and has no tail color. She has a faint lt. brown on wings back and a little on the breast. I read about Dun the reason I first assume dun(actually I was thinking maybe khaki in the beginning) is because it is a dom. white allele and bird came from a white line. You're telling me it's not dun can you tell me what may be involved. You said dun has never been proven in Serama, has it been disproved? Where might I find info on that?I'm guessing it would be recessive. Can you tell me where I may find more info. on the pumpkin genetics.Is it Ar combined with ?. Why would the chocolate pullet be considered pumpkin, is there something in her color that suggest pumpkin? How is pumpkin passed down. yes any information I consider relevant I will test myself. That is just how I learn. I don't want to be told what to breed just some information on What I can maybe expect When I breed them.Once I'm raising later generations I'm sure I'll be better at determining some of the genes for myself. When breeding the cocopop pair would you expect that some of the cocks would be colored like cafe con leche. I think his color is from pumpkin and chocolate since that is what he produced. What do you think is the genes responsible for the dilution in the black on cockerels tail. I really like the white border on the dark tail feathers. Thanks for any help you can offer!

 

[smoothmule]

The pullet I'm questioning is not cocopop and has no tail color. She has a faint lt. brown on wings back and a little on the breast. I read about Dun the reason I first assume dun(actually I was thinking maybe khaki in the beginning) is because it is a dom. white allele and bird came from a white line. You're telling me it's not dun can you tell me what may be involved. You said dun has never been proven in Serama, has it been disproved? Where might I find info on that?I'm guessing it would be recessive. Can you tell me where I may find more info. on the pumpkin genetics.Is it Ar combined with ?. Why would the chocolate pullet be considered pumpkin, is there something in her color that suggest pumpkin? How is pumpkin passed down. yes any information I consider relevant I will test myself. That is just how I learn. I don't want to be told what to breed just some information on What I can maybe expect When I breed them.Once I'm raising later generations I'm sure I'll be better at determining some of the genes for myself. When breeding the cocopop pair would you expect that some of the cocks would be colored like cafe con leche. I think his color is from pumpkin and chocolate since that is what he produced. What do you think is the genes responsible for the dilution in the black on cockerels tail. I really like the white border on the dark tail feathers. Thanks for any help you can offer!

Pumpkin dilutes the tail like you're seeing in the cocopop's. Your question about disproving is a strange question. Since there has never been a single Serama with proven dun, that pretty much says it. Dun is easy to breed, it is Not a recessive. One parent has to Be dun to produce a dun chick. If there had been even a single dun in the Serama's, there would be duns everywhere by now. It's a single gene. You don't have to put together a bunch of genes to create it. Khaki is to Dun, what Splash is to blue.....it's a homozygous phenotype.....double diluted (as in the cream based horse colors....palomino to perlino).

Disproving it is just another way to say it's Not been proven to exist in Serama's. If you cannot prove it is there, why ask about "disproving" it as though asking the same question in another way will change the answer. Pumpkin is well known and can be bred for but then genetics are not understood. It can also double dilute, producing a very khaki "looking" color (phenotype) but you cannot "make" dun from a look a like. It is either Dun or it is not. Dun is very easily proven by breeding....and very easily disproven by breeding.

Being white does not link to Dun. They are different.

 

[DRGLENNON]

Pumpkin dilutes the tail like you're seeing in the cocopop's. Thanks, that helps. I didn't know pumpkin dilutes Your question about disproving is a strange question. Since there has never been a single Serama with proven dun, that pretty much says it. Dun is easy to breed, it is Not a recessive. One parent has to Be dun to produce a dun chick. If there had been even a single dun in the Serama's, there would be duns everywhere by now. It's a single gene. You don't have to put together a bunch of genes to create it. Khaki is to Dun, what Splash is to blue.....it's a homozygous phenotype.....double diluted (as in the cream based horse colors....palomino to perlino).

Disproving it is just another way to say it's Not been proven to exist in Serama's. Actually disproving would be proof of non existence, I'm sorry if my wording is confusing. In your flock you are sure there is no dun. To disprove dun someone would have to have some scientific evidence that it can not exist in this breed for some reason other than I have not seen it. For example if it was proven the Serama breed had a deletion of this gene across the board. That being said I do not believe the bird to be dun or khaki. If you cannot prove it is there, why ask about "disproving" it as though asking the same question in another way will change the answer. Pumpkin is well known and can be bred for but then genetics are not understood. It can also double dilute, producing a very khaki "looking" color (phenotype) but you cannot "make" dun from a look a like.That does explain the coloration of the cocopops but the pullet in question has no pumpkin to my knowledge. What peaked my interest in this bird is that she popped up in a long line of white birds so am I correct to assume the color is from a hidden recessive gene. Do you have any ideas as to what may be responsible for this unexpected color in a white line of birds? It is either Dun or it is not. Dun is very easily proven by breeding....and very easily disproven by breeding.

Being white does not link to Dun. They are different. dominate white, dun and smokey are all part of the Dominate White Locus(gene group) and are related. Dun is a dom. white allele as is smokey. I would love to see a bird of any breed that carried both dun and smokey just to see the effects but I think that maybe to difficult to prove without genetic testing. In theory there could be dun in serums that is being mask due to the effect of other unknown related genes. Similar to the effects of pumpkin on chocolate.

I'm sorry if my questioning the genetics is a pain but I have a genetic disorder that the effected genes can not be isolated even by some of the best doctors in the country. I can not locate the gene or genes responsible but see the results everyday. So I have lots of questions. I may not be able to figure me out but I think I might be able to figure out this chicken. lol. Thanks for your response.

 

[mcrooke45]

Here are some of my Dun Project Oriental Bantams.






They are young birds I hatched this year showing all 3 colors, Dun,Black, and Khaki. They are Wheaten based.

 

[DRGLENNON]

Very nice examples!