prayer warriors (following Jesus Christ, everyone welcome)

[shortgrass]

Our family is christian, but we still have a tree and give gifts and stuff. Well, if you call the two foot tall wire thingy a tree, anyways   We just decorated today   
It was Martin Luther who started the whole tree tradition, right? I know that he had something to do with it...

Okay, my turn to complain about something
As for gifts, I honestly only wanted one thing, just one! And STILL mom goes shoping for all of us  I probably broke the "budget" though if I did get it; A reeeeeaaaally nice australian saddle, the perfect combo of everything that both me and dad wanted - BUT it costs 1000 bucks   That is probably the only time I have really wanted the most expensive thing in the store; any other thing, and I would've been like, "phbt, not happenin." I so hope I get it   

No, not quite...go back about 4000 years and you'd be closer

Nimrod was the source of the tree.

Genesis 10:8

8 Cush was the father[c] of Nimrod, who became a mighty warrior on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord; that is why it is said, “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Uruk, Akkad and Kalneh, in[d] Shinar.[e] 11 From that land he went to Assyria, where he built Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir,[f] Calah 12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and Calah—which is the great city.

He was Hams' grandson, and he was responsible for Babylon, and he was pagan.

Here, this will blow your mind lol...disclaimer, it is not what I believe, but its an ongoing study, 2+ years I've been digging in this one

https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Hebrew_Roots/Neglected_Commandments/Idolatry/Christmas_trees

And here is why I hesitate to celebrate until I've completed my studies...


Article by Larry Ray Hafley

During December we are reminded to, "Keep Christ in Christmas." Who, though, put Him there in the first place?

Did God?
We know "the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world" (I
John 4:14). Jesus said that He neither acted or spoke of his own will, but that he said and did only those things authorized by his Father (John 6:38; 12:49). Is the celebration of Jesus' birth a thing spoken by the Father to the Son?

We are not saying the birth of Jesus was not the Father's will. It was. To God the Father, Jesus said, "A body hast thou prepared me" (Hebrews 10:5). "When the fulness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman" (Galatians 4:4). About Jesus' birth, as related by Matthew and Luke, there can be no dispute. However, we are asking a separate question; namely, did God put Christ in the tradition that we know as Christmas? What Scripture shows that God placed Christ in Christmas and put Christmas in the worship of the church? Does anyone know? If not, how can we say that God put Christ in Christmas?

Did Jesus?
Jesus was given all authority (Matthew 28:18; Ephesians 1:20-23). Did He place himself in Christmas? Since He is the founder and the foundation of our faith, if His Father did not put Him in Christmas, perhaps, as head of the church, He did so himself (Ephesians 5:23, 24). If He did, where might we find this information? Surely, in the New Testament, but do we find it there?

Do we have a source which shows that Jesus taught His disciples to keep a tradition called Christmas, or an annual remembrance of His birth? If so, where is it? If it cannot be found, is it correct to say that Christ put himself in Christmas and that he set Christmas in the church?

Did the Holy Spirit?
Jesus promised the apostles the Spirit would guide them "into all truth," revealing to them things He had not spoken to them directly (Jn. 16:12-15). So, then, did the Spirit design the Christmas season as we know it, and did He put Christ in Christmas? If He did, we must accept His word and "keep Christ in Christmas," for to reject the Spirit is to reject God (I Corinthians 2:10-13; I Thessalonians 1:5; 2:13; 5:19; Cf. Acts 5:3,4,9). Where has the Spirit revealed that He is the one who put Christ in Christmas and Christmas in the church?

Did the Apostles?
To reject the word of the apostles is to reject the word of Christ and God (Luke 10:16; I Corinthians 14:37; I Thessalonians 4:1, 2, 8). The "apostles' doctrine" is "the doctrine of the Lord" (Acts 2:42; 13:12). Thus, if we can find the apostles putting and keeping Christ in Christmas, we may do likewise with the approval of heaven. Do we read of disciples who, at the behest of the apostles, observed the Christmas tradition, or who noted the birth of Jesus in any manner? Since keeping Christ in Christmas allegedly is an important duty, we should expect to find the first fervent and devout disciples of the Lord doing so. But, is that what we find?

What Do We Find?
"December 25 is...observed as the...birth of Christ." In early times this day was not one of the feasts of the Christian Church. In fact, the church fathers frowned upon the celebration of birthdays and thought them a heathen custom. It is thought that Christmas was not celebrated until some 300 years after the birth of Christ.

"No one is certain why December 25 was chosen. There is nothing in the New Testament to indicate that this is the date of the Nativity" (The New Book Of Knowledge, Vol. 3, p. 289).

Since neither God, nor Christ, nor the Holy Spirit, nor the apostles put Christ in Christmas, why should we?

 

[PeepersMama]

Hmm. Good food for thought.
I think Luther started putting candles on the tree... maybe, maybe not. My brain is known for forgetting things

 

[ocap]

is it possible to misunderstand a passage in the Bible? Why? Pasted below are the verses that I was thinking about in my awake hours last night, are they related? I find it both amusing and disturbing that some of the world's religions think that a human can be God if enough rules are properly followed. My mind jumps around the Bible a lot, if you can not follow that is OK.

What or why is "therefore" there for?

Matthew 13:12-14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

12 For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
‘You will keep on hearing, but will not understand;
You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive;



John 1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Matthew 7

18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you


Matthew 9:4-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, “Why are you thinking evil in your hearts? 5 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, and walk’? 6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He *said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your bed and go home.”


edited for font size

 

[shortgrass]

is it possible to misunderstand a passage in the Bible? Why? Pasted below are the verses that I was thinking about in my awake hours last night, are they related? I find it both amusing and disturbing that some of the world's religions think that a human can be God if enough rules are properly followed. My mind jumps around the Bible a lot, if you can not follow that is OK. What or why is "therefore" there for? Matthew 13:12-14 New American Standard Bible (NASB) [SUP]12 [/SUP]For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. [SUP]14 [/SUP]In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; John 1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He was in the beginning with God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. Matthew 7 [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]So then, you will know them by their fruits. [SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you Matthew 9:4-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB) [SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, “Why are you thinking evil in your hearts? [SUP]5 [/SUP]Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, and walk’? [SUP]6 [/SUP]But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He *said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your bed and go home.” edited for font size

Well I'll bite Yes. Yes, the word can be very much misunderstood and misinterpreted. I've seen some fine examples right here on this thread... Whats the therefore there for? Most people probably don't notice how many times that word actually shows up in scripture. I was curious as to how many.... oún (a conjunction) – therefore, now then, accordingly so. 3767 (oún) occurs 526 times in the NT and is typically translated "therefore" which means, "By extension, here's how the dots connect." 526 times! Anything repeated that many times begs consideration. Therefore connects two statements, a cause and effect. In this instance, those who aren't "in the spirit" with the truth are given parables as a consequence of not truly wanting to hear. Sometimes I think it's in order to confound the wicked ones that would twist and misinterpret if the truth was plain. To those with the spirit, the truth IS plain, especially in the parables. The need to WANT to hear is the difference between the two. I think about that a lot too... Like right now is a prime example. I don't celebrate Christmas because 1. My husband doesn't allow it, and I do what he says out if respect for him. But... I'm concerned that we come across as hypocrites, holier than thou, if you will... I try not to preach or teach anything one way or the other on it, since I'm still learning, but sometimes I feel like we try too hard to follow all these rules but the rules are less important than doing WHATEBER it is we decide to do, with LOVE. Until I can fully grasp the ins and outs of the plethora of "therefores" I'm still reading and rereading until my eyes pop out of my head ha-ha

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I thought you all might enjoy this:

That was the cutest video and brought tears of joy to my eyes!

@shortgrass I don't know anything about who said keep the Christ in Christmas. As far as I know it was originally a pagan holiday the Christians chose to use as the day they celebrate Jesus birth despite the fact that he was not born in December.

As far as your hubbies rules..... Wow! Maybe there is a reason the daughters walk out of the room when it's mentioned.

Why take the joy out of celebrating the miracle of our saviors birth, regardless of what the world does? So you don't celebrate your childrens' birthdays either? I have to be honest, I hate gifts. But not to celebrate at all seems like it would steal my joy! And that certainly would not honor God. In fact... it reminds me of Jehovas' witnesses.

Those kids were always left out.

Not saying anything bad about your family, just having a conversation...

What I wonder is.... what will your husband learn from you? Despite the fact that he was saved before you and is older, is his mind and heart still open to learning that his understanding might not be the only understanding? I can tell you are open because you responded kindly in this thread to some of what I consider to be jibberish and hog wash if not straight lies with ZERO scripture to back them up! Some people ARE trading the truth for a lie even in this thread!

Romans 1:22-27 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Hmmm!

But how amazing is it that Gods' word is travelling to the ends of the Earth? That a bunch of chicken folk are talking about Him? Strangers from all around the world in all different walks of life talking about the ONE true GOD!!

Thank You LORD, your time is close at hand... when every knee shall bow and every tongue profess!!!!

@Jesusfreak101 I hope this Christmas you and your husbands' marriage is blessed beyond understanding that you might be restored into His full glory and lead down the path that honors Him.... showing the world that while saving a marriage may be humanly impossible...

Mathew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
And know that throughout all your troubles, God has had a plan! And it is greater than I ever imagined. A once lowly human, decaying in the world, never having known the Truth, now set apart to glorify God. A two fold rope may be easily broken. But when you put GOD first everything else will come into alignment and and a three fold rope is much stronger! I believe you marriage will be more than restored and become new with a strength it never had before, in Jesus name!

Merry Christmas friends! Unto us a savior is born! And we shall call him Emmanuel.

 

[Beer can]

Hope you'all don't mind, but I just love this speech, reminds me of being a kid. Sometimes we forget being all wrapped up in the presents and the gifts, who got who what and who didn't give someone anything, so material sometimes I find myself disliking Christmas. The Christmas dinner that seems never to be picture perfect. Love seeing the smiles on our kids faces opening presents then think of how short lived the joy is and how the new stuff just become part of the old pile.
Then I just asked our three youngest, four, six and eight, 'why do we celebrate Christmas? ', in unison they said 'because it's Jesus's birthday'.

[VIDEO]

 

[shortgrass]

Well, @EggSighted4Life, did I mention its a very strict home?

(We acknowledge birthdays, but not a wild party scene. I do bake a cake and will get the kids something special, though)

We just literally teach straight from the Bible. But you know how we have learned just in this thread how very off our interpretation can be sometimes


This right here is one I study ALOT.

1 Peter 3: 1-17

3 Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

Suffering for Doing Good
8 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10 For,

“Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep their tongue from evil
and their lips from deceitful speech.
11 They must turn from evil and do good;
they must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”
13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14 But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear their threats; do not be frightened.” 15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17 For it is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.


Ah but let me go back and highlight something....



You're absolutely right; its my duty to assist if there's error, and sometimes being younger and still "drinking milk", I struggle to teach


And we have Jehovah's Witnesses in the immediate family, and you are correct, there has been some " false doctrine" that we've had to study and repair. But I give the JW credit, they do try so very hard, but I'll admit they miss some key points. Maybe we just needed someone like me to come into the picture and ask "why, why, why" until we can see the truth for what it is.

Until then lol, back to reading and praying for guidance and patiently waiting for the answers to be revealed in their own time

 

[lazy gardener]

is it possible to misunderstand a passage in the Bible? Why? Pasted below are the verses that I was thinking about in my awake hours last night, are they related? I find it both amusing and disturbing that some of the world's religions think that a human can be God if enough rules are properly followed. My mind jumps around the Bible a lot, if you can not follow that is OK.

What or why is "therefore" there for?

Matthew 13:12-14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

12 For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
‘You will keep on hearing, but will not understand;
You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive;



John 1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Matthew 7

18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you


Matthew 9:4-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, “Why are you thinking evil in your hearts? 5 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, and walk’? 6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He *said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your bed and go home.”


edited for font size

My ramblings on above text: There fore is there to tell you what the previous text is there fore. For example: A + B = C, therefore, C - B = A. The following is the conclusion and an absolute statement rising from the truth of the previous statement.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
John 1:1. One of my favorite verses.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

It goes along nicely with Genesis 1:1,2 and 26, 27

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a]and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

In John 1:1, we see reference to the Word. That is Jesus. This verse speaks to the fact that Jesus has always been, that Jesus is the word, that He is also God, and that all things are created through him. He is also referred to as the LIGHT of the world. Darkness is sin, and does not understand light.

In Genesis 1, we see reference to God the father, God the spirit, and God the son. Verse 26: When God says, let US make mankind in OUR image, that is not referring to there being more than one God. It is referring to the one and only God who exists in 3 persons: The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. Thankfully, I don't have to understand the concept of one God existing as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If my God is small enough to understand, he in not big enough for me to fully worship.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Matt. 13: 13,14. I think Jesus spoke in parables because those who were spiritually blind, not seeking the truth, would not understand anyways. Similar to how good Bible teaching exists on 2 levels: Spiritual milk, for spiritual babes, and Meat, for the more spiritually mature believers. They can understand the deeper things of God, while the spiritual babes simply don't possess the maturity to be able to "digest it". A verse that parallels this text is Matthew 7:6. Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. In other words, use discernment when sharing spiritual matters. There is a time and a place. There is a time when you will meet someone who truly wants to know what God has to say, and that person is ready to hear what God is saying. And there are other situations, when you will meet some one who is angry at God, and the mere mention of His name will result in that person going into immediate attack mode. We are to use discernment in our conversation re: spiritual matters.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Matthew 7 text goes back to the faith/works. To simply state the sinner's prayer, recite the words, without any actual repentance= the tree that does not produce fruit. That person is not really one of Jesus disciples. He knows the heart. It boils down to the motivation behind the good works. Do I do good works to earn God's favor? Or do I do good works because I owe my everything to Him, and I serve him out of love, and there is no sweeter place to be than walking in His will?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Matthew 9 text comes on the heels of many separate encounters where Jesus healed many physical and spiritual issues, including raising a little girl up from death. When He forgave the paralytic's sins, The Scribes claimed Him guilty of blasphemy (I believe a crime to be punishable by death) because only God can forgive sin. So, Jesus effectively proved his deity by healing the man as well.

 

[ocap]

here are the first words of this morning's posting:

Originally Posted by ocap

is it possible to misunderstand a passage in the Bible?

If I do not look at myself first for a possible misunderstanding then I am letting pride blind me. I will say it another way, every time I read a Bible passage about a sin, it is easier for me to think about everyone else but me.

I need to pull the log out of my eye in Matthew 7

Matthew 7New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Judging Others

7 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

 

[daxigait]

Merry Christmas @ocap and everyone.