Problem making decision

[Nambroth]

Karen, just as a note you might want to edit your necropsy post and remove your address and phone number. I know that google does index the BYC forum posts, and since they are public, bots can troll for your phone number etc. I'd hate for you to get an increase in cold calls or get someone bothering you. I know that sounds paranoid but nuttier things have happened online!

I'm a layman but what I got from her gross necropsy is that she was thin, had blown through her subcutaneous fat reserves, and she had a scattering of broken capillaries throughout her small intestine, along with worm(s) and mild enteritis. It could be she ate something bad and it caused it, or it could be that she was weakened by (???) and the enteritis was a secondary problem from a lowered immune system.

I would not expect a bird of her age to succumb to lymphatic tumors, which is what most gross necropsy will look for in regards to Marek's disease. The other thing they look for is lesions on the sciatic nerve under telescope, but I don't think they look at this unless the bird was ataxic and showing signs of possible Marek's or neurological disease-- but I am not 100% sure.

Did you ever do PCR testing for Marek's before your aspergillosis bird? I am still really unsure about Marek's testing in birds without active symptoms. So far I've had no responses to my inquiries about this and I am not sure where else to turn. I would really, really like to know if a PCR run on blood only will catch Marek's DNA markers if the bird is NOT symptomatic and the virus is latent. I can't seem to get an answer on this.
When I had my cochin rooster tested, they took samples from various organs, and those PCR tests all came back positive (Marek's).
Later, when I had my still living rooster tested, less than a year later, they took blood only and all tests came back negative, but he surely was exposed??

 

[seminolewind]

Thanks, Suzie. My care is not totally over the wall awesome. They did find A WORM!!!!!!!!

I will be rotating Wazine with the Goatguard. I mean safeguard.

My hen Fern has not been right. Pale and thin. Today she looked better. Yesterday she got an antibiotic. I think I'll give her a course of Penicillin because if by chance she caught Enteritis because the silkie had it, well, you never know. It may have been treatable. But depending on where in the intestine it is, it can be pretty symptomless.

Roo got some aspirin today. I bought a scale like Kathy suggested and I should weigh him. My husband thinks I should just let him go on his own when he's ready.

 

[seminolewind]

Karen, just as a note you might want to edit your necropsy post and remove your address and phone number. I know that google does index the BYC forum posts, and since they are public, bots can troll for your phone number etc. I'd hate for you to get an increase in cold calls or get someone bothering you. I know that sounds paranoid but nuttier things have happened online!

I'm a layman but what I got from her gross necropsy is that she was thin, had blown through her subcutaneous fat reserves, and she had a scattering of broken capillaries throughout her small intestine, along with worm(s) and mild enteritis. It could be she ate something bad and it caused it, or it could be that she was weakened by (???) and the enteritis was a secondary problem from a lowered immune system.

I would not expect a bird of her age to succumb to lymphatic tumors, which is what most gross necropsy will look for in regards to Marek's disease. The other thing they look for is lesions on the sciatic nerve under telescope, but I don't think they look at this unless the bird was ataxic and showing signs of possible Marek's or neurological disease-- but I am not 100% sure.

Did you ever do PCR testing for Marek's before your aspergillosis bird? I am still really unsure about Marek's testing in birds without active symptoms. So far I've had no responses to my inquiries about this and I am not sure where else to turn. I would really, really like to know if a PCR run on blood only will catch Marek's DNA markers if the bird is NOT symptomatic and the virus is latent. I can't seem to get an answer on this.
When I had my cochin rooster tested, they took samples from various organs, and those PCR tests all came back positive (Marek's).
Later, when I had my still living rooster tested, less than a year later, they took blood only and all tests came back negative, but he surely was exposed??

Thanks, Nambroth. I went and erased parts of the rest.

On both necropsies I wrote "suspected sepsis". And I was under the impression that they sent tissue samples for Marek's. But I'm as clueless as the next person. I should be calling people as well to answer your question. To me, exposure=having the virus. Whether they develop symptoms I feel is an immune system response or not. But they still "have" Marek's . I remember asking you about the pcr and the vaccine, and what I remember is that a pcr is a specific marker so it would differenciate (?)

I guess I will be sending necropsies for a long time. The silkie was not vaccinated and was hatched by her mother who was suspected bringing Marek's.

It would be hard to understand what all my dead chickens had if it was not Marek's. I just don't think it's possible to have an abundance of classic symptoms and not have it.

I see what you mean about if the virus is still picked up if the chicken has no symptoms. A very interesting question.

Nambroth, I remember you telling me about the 2 roos. They even talk about testing feather tips. I wonder how valid that is.

 

[Nambroth]

I have a few friends that might be able to catch the ear of someone that studies virus DNA sequencing / retrovirus latency (maybe!) and see if I can get my question answered. I just haven't wanted to bother them before now because it will be a "friend of a friend asked _____..." I was really hoping someone would answer my letters. Maybe I sound like a fool for asking! I think it would be important for us to know if blood tests on a symptomless bird might not be accurate. My interpretation of this might be flawed, too, and I just don't know. Sometimes I think I took the wrong career path!

Let us know when you get the other test results in. I sure hope your other birds are okay.

 

[seminolewind]

Nambroth, from what I've read (the big heavy book ) you can have false negatives with different tissues. I have to re read the rest, LOL

 

[Nambroth]

Nambroth, from what I've read (the big heavy book ) you can have false negatives with different tissues. I have to re read the rest, LOL

That is my concern. Augh! And yet some vets will tell us that PCR is 100% accurate. Which, yes, it is... but it is only 100% accurate on the samples submitted, right? It can be very confusing to most people.

 

[seminolewind]

yea , that sounds about right.

 

[hennible]

So, birds can be carriers with no symptoms? And if that's the case do the still die of Mareks? Sorry if this is a silly question.

 

[seminolewind]

So, birds can be carriers with no symptoms? And if that's the case do the still die of Mareks? Sorry if this is a silly question.

Nothing is a silly question. Yes any bird exposed to a carrier becomes a carrier and can give it to others. Whether they get symptoms or not is up to the bird's immune system. I have "carriers" that are 6-7 years old.

At the bottom of my posts is a link to Nambroth's "Great Giant Big Marek's FAQ". It's well worth reading.

 

[hennible]

Thank you seminolewind I will read it.