Pullets laying few short weeks - 2 bleeding?

[Ted Brown]

Good question Ted, hard to know for sure.
As @aart mentioned hard to tell if the damage was done after the fact or...

Seeing how this last one does may reveal something.

I have 3 of 6 pullets left. Thinking I should keep them in the cage for a bit yet?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

You can try.

Do you have a game camera or security camera you can set up to observe them to see if they are picking at each other or??

 

[Ted Brown]

No but I will borrow or buy. Thx

 

[Wyorp Rock]

It's a puzzle Ted.
Let us know what you find out.

 

[Ted Brown]

If the three dead pullets were dispatched by the remaining three can I assume that there will be more deaths if I leave them in the cage?

I do not want to put the remaining pullets in the coop with my flock is they are habituated to pecking.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

If that's what happened then yes, it's possible they may be prone to vent picking.

It would be nice to be able to rule out if this is indeed the reason the others died. Chickens are opportunistic, so the others may have died, then the remaining just picked at exposed tissue.

 

[Ted Brown]

A fourth pullet has died, same symptoms although this time I have kept a close eye on how events proceeded. A fifth pullet is now being subjected to the same pecking process and I expect her to die within the next 24 hours.

That will leave what I assume is the dominant one, I will cull her as I do not want to transfer this problem into my existing flock.

The process is very quick - 24-48 hours max. Guessing that they bleed out overnight as they are alive but bleeding in the evening and dead in the morning. If one is unprepared/inexperienced easy to be mystified about what is going on. In my case there was no evidence other than bleeding at the vent and as noted the process does not take very long.

As to cause I would have to say too long in a confined space. The cage I have is 8' by 5' by 3' high so 40 sq ft. I have previously used the same cage for 7 ISA ready to lay pullets for several weeks without problems; also for 11 grown Barred Rocks without issue. In the current situation I elevated the cage to deter predators; previously the cage was on the grass and would be tarped each night; for the Rocks the cage was inside the garage (just trying to highlight differences not pointing to these as the cause).

I am now trying to decide on future circumstances. I caged them as a bio-security step and would want to do the same with any future birds but clearly do not want to go through this again. I am thinking about constructing a set of single cages but envision possible problems with as well.

I will note that my incubation process is working well; 4 weeks in a brooder and then into the coop behind a HC wall under the drop boards with small doors that allow the chicks in/out but too small for full grown birds.

Any advice or comments appreciated.

 

[Ted Brown]

...
There's always risks when introducing new birds from an outside source. You've had them separated out for 30days or so. This would give you ample time to observe them for any respiratory disease symptoms, external parasites, etc. Not to say they are disease free and carry something or that they can pick up something from your existing flock, but this is the best you can do.

I am curious about this statement. At this point I feel confident that I can detect respiratory symptoms and certainly external parasites (have been through both mites and lice) in a much shorter time than 30 days. My best recollection is reading three weeks of bio isolation, not certain how I came to a thirty days.

You seem to be suggesting that there are other diseases that can easily be missed even with isolation? This suggests that an isolation period can be shorter and still allow detection of the more obvious issues?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I am curious about this statement. At this point I feel confident that I can detect respiratory symptoms and certainly external parasites (have been through both mites and lice) in a much shorter time than 30 days. My best recollection is reading three weeks of bio isolation, not certain how I came to a thirty days.

You seem to be suggesting that there are other diseases that can easily be missed even with isolation? This suggests that an isolation period can be shorter and still allow detection of the more obvious issues?

It's common practice to quarantine new birds for 2wks to 30 days.
This time period would allow you to observe for any symptoms.

Well, there's always the other side of the coin isn't there. Birds you bring in may become ill after they are introduced to existing flocks.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm sorry that you have lost more.

Sounds like the picking started for whatever reason and has now become a nasty habit. Likely that would continue on even if given enough space.

Some birds can bear confinement better than others but reassessing the setup for future birds would be a good idea.

Here's the bottom-line Ted. Yes, generally speaking, anytime you bring in new birds like POL from another farm, auction, show, etc. it's wise to quarantine them away from your flock for an observation period. You should be able to check them over right away for external parasites like lice/mites. A fecal float done by a vet can be performed fairly quickly to determine if they need deworming or you can just deworm as a precaution.
Usually if newbies are going to show symptoms of respiratory illness, that would show up within 7 days or so. I'd say quarantine at least 2weeks minimum.

Even if they show no symptoms, it does not mean they aren't carriers of something that can be passed on to an existing flock (they would be asymptomatic carriers) OR vice versa.
This is the chance, risk any of us take.
Things could work out great, o.k. or not so good, life work that way anyway.

Bringing in chicks from a large hatchery or hatching your own, you can reduce some of the risk, but again, life if is risky, but it's very much worth it.