Question on GMO feed

[Spifflove]

The first statement is untrue, I'm not sure what data that is from but it's very clear that vaccines are of great benefit. It really bugs me because there are segments of the population who cannot be vaccinated, for example children with leukemia. Then they have be exposed to all these perfectly preventable diseases because there are other segments of society who were misinformed and send their sick, unvaccinated children to school to spread the illnesses to those kids who don't have a choice about vaccinations. It's frankly irresponsible. Now we have kids with illnesses we haven't seen in ages and kids who have already compromised immune systems being exposed to them, life-threatening to them, because somebody else's parents were suspicious of vaccines.

On the Amish- a common logical fallacy is that correlation equates corroboration. We call it "post hoc ergo propter hoc" formally. This is not the case. For your example specifically there can be number of reasons why a population doesn't appear to have much autism. The Amish are extremes- their entire lifestyle is very different than most modern people. If I apply your logical fallacy likewise to the Amish, one could say that 1. Amish do not get vaccines 2. Amish have high rates of dwarfism therefore 3. Not getting vaccinated causes dwarfism. Right? Wrong of course, they have higher rates of dwarfism and a number of other genetic diseases/disorders because they are inbred (and I say that clinically, not as a derogative). It is absolutely 100% untrue that vaccines cause autism. The main problem with that study you refer to was the same flawed logic actually. He found kids with autism, found they were all vaccinated as is common practice and said a>b and b>c thus a>c. Cherry picking data and no meaningful controls. They also eat food, breathe air, were exposed to sunlight and were from Europe. Does that imply any of those things cause autism? Of course not. And that one single unethical doctor started this whole hysteria. Read carefully, you will see that just like GMOs (and in fact vaccines are GMOs) all subsequent literature eventually leads back to that one rotten apple buried in the bottom of the barrel.

Oooh look! A real paragraph!

You see how this discussion is quickly getting out of hand. I mean you can say x doesn't prove y doesn't prove z all day long. But looking at the whole picture and not just one part of it:
1. The Western countries with the most vaccines [US] have the most infant deaths. The country with the least [Japan, Sweden] have the least. [And Sweden has a BIG third world population ].
2. Most vaccine preventable deadly diseases were almost already eliminated before the vaccine for them was administered. Simply by washing hands and not dumping chamber pots into the street.
3. Assuming 85% percent of the population does get vaccinated, your child need not get vaccinated due to herd immunity.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote: It wouldn't be if not for all the MISINFORMATION.
Quote: You're just jumping to conclusions as to the CAUSE of those deaths, and comparing the US to countries that aren't as large as some of our states

There are nearly as many people in New York City as there are in Sweden.

All the "proof" you've shown has been easily refuted, and most of your "facts" are just things you've made up, or repeated without checking, and without showing any source for the data

Why not just admit you can't prove your case?

 

[SunnysMama]

I don't care if GMO's are good or bad (well, I do but...), I just want to have the freedom of choice. All GMO products should be labeled just like Organic is labeled. If the government won't protect our families I want the information that I can do it myself!! In the long run I think that GMO seeds are going to create superbugs and superweeds just like the overuse of antibiotics has created some superbugs!! GMO's are going to cross pollinate with our heritage seeds and cause them to be sterile.

Don't even get me started on the vaccine issue!!

Buy local or grow your own.

 

[fowlsessed]

Exactly, the fact that it will contaminate "MY" seeds is just too much, that is my ultimate concern since I hope to eventually produce most of what I eat. I have come to the conclusion that they see what they want, and blink at what they don't want to see, how can you help someone like that. The studies they are looking for may eventually come...or they may not, since I don't understand how much more you want before making a decision for yourself that GMO's are not, at the very least, the best.
Okay, so lets say that someone comes up with something that "proves" that these GMO's really aren't all that bad--was it hurting anything staying away from them? Is it hurting anything trying to stay away from the, proven, increased use of harmful pesticides/insecticides? Was it hurting anything trying to preserve a variety of non-GMO seeds?
And what if a kind of study that these guys are looking for did come about, that proved them, indeed, harmful. What did it hurt?..........
I'm no 'hippy', or anything else that anti-GMO people are often associated with, I just want to be on the "safe side" and want other seed options. I'm no longer trying to prove GMO's "harmful" or "un-harmful" because I don't know how to anymore, maybe it's really not possible, (well, of course it's not with "blinkers"!!). But I'm convinced in my own mind, and in the end, maybe that's the best I can do.

 

[Breella]

This thread has turned into a train wreck-- but if anyone has a brand name for the non GMO feed can they let me know please.

 

[SunnysMama]

I know that H&H feed is non-GMO.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

As to Bt, here's a nifty little article about Bt in the bloodstream of pregnant women and their unborn babies!

This test was performed in Canada.

Of course, the GM promoters deny, deny, deny. However, they don't test any people themselves.

You do realize BT is a NATURALLY occurring bacteria?
Do you also realize this study used flawed methods, and has been discredited?

Have you noticed how EASY it is to show these studies are just desperate attempts to demonize GMO crops?
http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumerinformation/gmfoods/fsanzresponsetostudy5185.cfm


Quote:
Quote:

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote: It's fine to make choices, but they shouldn't be based on fantasies like those above
Just say you don't like it, even though there's no real proof it's harmful

There's no need to make up things to justify it, nor any need to repeat things without knowing if it's true

 

[Michael Apple]

It's fine to make choices, but they shouldn't be based on fantasies like those above
Just say you don't like it, even though there's no real proof it's harmful

There's no need to make up things to justify it, nor any need to repeat things without knowing if it's true

Fantasies, eh? I suppose it is just succumbing to fantasy that Obama signed provisions protecting Biotech companies like Monsanto from litigation suits based upon possible health risks due to consuming their products.
Link here: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57576835/critics-slam-obama-for-protecting-monsanto/

Now why would provisions like this be sought if their products are so healthy and safe?

Because they aren't, and insulting my intelligence won't exalt you to intelligentsia status.

I suppose it isn't just a coincidence that Obama appointed Michael Taylor, the Monsanto man, to lead the FDA:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_...st-michael-taylor-a-second-chance-at-the-fda/

Again, perhaps I'm just fantasizing about this coincidence.

Perhaps these farmers interviewed in this documentary are just living out some fantasy to take down those poor innocent Monsanto employees who are just trying to make a buck:

I don't merely decide to "like or dislike" something or someone based upon some bullish demagoguery. Sensibility versus nonsense is the determining factor.

 

[Cindy in PA]

You do realize BT is a NATURALLY occurring bacteria?
Do you also realize this study used flawed methods, and has been discredited?

Have you noticed how EASY it is to show these studies are just desperate attempts to demonize GMO crops?
http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumerinformation/gmfoods/fsanzresponsetostudy5185.cfm

You do realize that pesticides even organic ones should be used as a last resort. By putting it out there all the time we are just asking for the insects to become resistant to it. There were articles last summer that resistance is already happening to BT. Why is Monsanto releasing 2-4D resistant corn? Are the weeds resistant to Round Up already, so we have to go back to harsher herbicides??? This is happening in a really short period of time. Too short for the havoc these GMOs can wreak on organic farmers & gardeners who just want to grow their stuff and unsuspecting consumers.