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LightedPrism
Songster
what are they called? Maybe i can look them up? its like any idiot can write a book so id love recommendations of good books to look through
Questions on Framing
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what are they called? Maybe i can look them up? its like any idiot can write a book so id love recommendations of good books to look through
- Thread starter
- #12
LightedPrism
Songster
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U_Stormcrow
Crossing the Road
OK, I'm back on my computer, internet courtesy my cell phone and being throttled heavily. What can I do to help????
and yes, the new drawings (based on thumbnails) are much better. Still can't get the full size to load.
Typically, horizontal blocking/bracing is staggered. Not as quick to draw, I admit, but much easier to drive the nails.
Imagine drawing a single line from left to right. The first vertical section, that horizontal line is the bottom edge of your blocking. The next vertical section, its the top edge of your blocking. Repeat, repeat... Its also (barely) stronger. Mostly, its just easier to nail.
Blocking is used to provide a fire break (required by Code for residences and office spaces, not chicken houses) and bracing against sheer loads or buckling. Neither are needed for a chicken house. You don't have those kinds of loads.
and yes, the new drawings (based on thumbnails) are much better. Still can't get the full size to load.
Typically, horizontal blocking/bracing is staggered. Not as quick to draw, I admit, but much easier to drive the nails.
Imagine drawing a single line from left to right. The first vertical section, that horizontal line is the bottom edge of your blocking. The next vertical section, its the top edge of your blocking. Repeat, repeat... Its also (barely) stronger. Mostly, its just easier to nail.Blocking is used to provide a fire break (required by Code for residences and office spaces, not chicken houses) and bracing against sheer loads or buckling. Neither are needed for a chicken house. You don't have those kinds of loads.
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What program did you use to draw this?
Big no-no circled.
What kind of roofing material are you showing here?
Big no-no circled.
What kind of roofing material are you showing here?
U_Stormcrow
Crossing the Road
@aart I think he's planning sheet metal roofing - that's what's in one of the pencil sketches? and 4x4 corners??? I've managed to load a few pictures now, am at an absolute loss as to why this is being built like this in a few spots. Also, why the dimensions were chosen as they were.
@LightedPrism your door should be framed like this. On a 3' span, a single 2x4 is adequate as a header, and only one cripple plate is fine. If you have concerns, say you are prone to periodic high winds, nail two (2) 2x4s together, with a piece of 1/2" plywood between - that will be the same thickness as your wall studs, and very easy to nail/screw in place.
Your roof design is weak - and involves lots of unneeded cuts. Trust me when I say you are begging for trouble, thinking you are going to notch out all those blocks. and are you planning on using 4x4s as your corners??? Warning you now, 4x4s are never square, true, or plumb, the drying process results in them twisting, making it very difficult to frame up against them.
Last question, before I make a go at this - why did you choose the heights you did? Those don't look like multiples of common dimensions (48", 92 5/8", 96", 108", etc, which means lots of cutting)
@LightedPrism your door should be framed like this. On a 3' span, a single 2x4 is adequate as a header, and only one cripple plate is fine. If you have concerns, say you are prone to periodic high winds, nail two (2) 2x4s together, with a piece of 1/2" plywood between - that will be the same thickness as your wall studs, and very easy to nail/screw in place.
Your roof design is weak - and involves lots of unneeded cuts. Trust me when I say you are begging for trouble, thinking you are going to notch out all those blocks. and are you planning on using 4x4s as your corners??? Warning you now, 4x4s are never square, true, or plumb, the drying process results in them twisting, making it very difficult to frame up against them.
Last question, before I make a go at this - why did you choose the heights you did? Those don't look like multiples of common dimensions (48", 92 5/8", 96", 108", etc, which means lots of cutting)
Little to no building or drafting experience.
Wish there were a simple primer for both......but neither are simple.
U_Stormcrow
Crossing the Road
also, now that I see some dimensions, the roof is very shallow too. Recommend 3/12 as minimum, the same as the manufacturer.
U_Stormcrow
Crossing the Road
Going to recommend using California Corners, instead of 4x4s at the corners. MUCH easier to get square and true, ultimately stronger, will ease your roof framing (I'll get there in a subsequent comment), and its also easier to cut a 2x4 than a 4x4 with the typical circular saw of 7 1/4" blade. Obviously, if you've got a 10" chop saw or compound miter saw, its not an issue.
(Ignore the bit about insulation -chickens don't need it, and in your climate, it would make things worse, not better, for your birds).
and last thing. What is your floor plan? Not lay out, literally what are you doing for a floor? Dirt? Concrete? Raised deck? I noted your expectation to be wheel chair bound at some future point, sorry to hear that.
(Ignore the bit about insulation -chickens don't need it, and in your climate, it would make things worse, not better, for your birds).
and last thing. What is your floor plan? Not lay out, literally what are you doing for a floor? Dirt? Concrete? Raised deck? I noted your expectation to be wheel chair bound at some future point, sorry to hear that.
U_Stormcrow
Crossing the Road
OK, coming back to this in a few hours, don't want to get started before I have those answers on heights and flooring
The floor plan is off. Also is the roof plan.
Something to keep in mind when framing and considering loads and connections is the size of the timber used is not nearly as important as it's depth. This is hard for people to imagine but I assure you it's true. A 2x8 board will hold far more than a 4x4 even though the area of wood is the same.
4x4's are used as posts. 2 inch lumber for framing. If you think about loads and follow where it connects to another member then ultimately to the ground it gives you a better idea how framing works.
Lets say you have a structure on four posts (each corner) with a single slant roof. The load of roof is carried by the top and bottom ends of that roof not the sides. Same with a floor, the load is carried by the beam on each end of the joists. Each end of that beam carries 1/2 the load onto a posts and there the ground. Concrete tubes into the ground below frost line are your friend. Insitu soil can carry in excess of 3k pounds per square foot.
A simple carpenters method for choosing the correct joist is span in feet divided by 2 plus 2. So if you are spanning 20 feet; 20/2+2= 12; a 2x12 joist is needed. Pretty clever equation and as a student of engineering I tested it against actual civil engineering load equations. It always holds true which astonished me.
What you have in design is not the conventional method of framing. It is also not designed to hold the correct loads. Don't use posts for beams and there is no need for center beams that short of a span. Keep beams to load ends and run 2x? between them. The beams themselves can be glued and screwed 2x lumber. We really are not talking big loads here. Residential is 35lbs per square foot design. the above method of choosing the correct joist or rafter is based on that. This being an out structure could be 2ft on center design for floor and walls. If you're in a big snow part of the country then roof rafters should be 16 inches on center. Big snow is designed for 50lbs per square foot. The slope of roof diminishes this number so just to keep it simple use the dimension from wall to wall not the length of roof. Keep those 16 on center if you get a lot of snow, if not go 2ft on center. You'll be fine.
Good luck
Something to keep in mind when framing and considering loads and connections is the size of the timber used is not nearly as important as it's depth. This is hard for people to imagine but I assure you it's true. A 2x8 board will hold far more than a 4x4 even though the area of wood is the same.
4x4's are used as posts. 2 inch lumber for framing. If you think about loads and follow where it connects to another member then ultimately to the ground it gives you a better idea how framing works.
Lets say you have a structure on four posts (each corner) with a single slant roof. The load of roof is carried by the top and bottom ends of that roof not the sides. Same with a floor, the load is carried by the beam on each end of the joists. Each end of that beam carries 1/2 the load onto a posts and there the ground. Concrete tubes into the ground below frost line are your friend. Insitu soil can carry in excess of 3k pounds per square foot.
A simple carpenters method for choosing the correct joist is span in feet divided by 2 plus 2. So if you are spanning 20 feet; 20/2+2= 12; a 2x12 joist is needed. Pretty clever equation and as a student of engineering I tested it against actual civil engineering load equations. It always holds true which astonished me.
What you have in design is not the conventional method of framing. It is also not designed to hold the correct loads. Don't use posts for beams and there is no need for center beams that short of a span. Keep beams to load ends and run 2x? between them. The beams themselves can be glued and screwed 2x lumber. We really are not talking big loads here. Residential is 35lbs per square foot design. the above method of choosing the correct joist or rafter is based on that. This being an out structure could be 2ft on center design for floor and walls. If you're in a big snow part of the country then roof rafters should be 16 inches on center. Big snow is designed for 50lbs per square foot. The slope of roof diminishes this number so just to keep it simple use the dimension from wall to wall not the length of roof. Keep those 16 on center if you get a lot of snow, if not go 2ft on center. You'll be fine.
Good luck
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