Quick Question on worming meds

[casportpony]

@ChickenCanoe - yes, you are right. I do take mine to the lab if I can't solve it and don't know what the problem is. But a vet is out of the question. She seems improved now - I'm just being Motherly lol.

@casportpony - thanks. I didn't know that's what they charge. Just wish they had one closer to me (cuz I'm not moving haha) That is good to know..

You can use their Fed Ex number and overnight a small package for $9

-Kathy

 

[2greenboyz]

Valbazen dose is just 0.08 ml per pound for one day and repeat in ten days.

-Kathy

Unless it's capillary worms right? Or is that just for SG? In other words, this is the dose for Valbazen to treat capillary worms, with SG you'd have to treat those five days straight? Do I have it right now?

 

[casportpony]

Quote: The one day dose will get a large percentage of them, SG takes five. Looking for more info on how to get 100% capillary coverage with Valbazen... I suspect it will be something like three days in a row for 100%.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Or perhaps a larger one day dose will do it, but have not found any studies that say that.

-Kathy

 

[2greenboyz]

Okay got it. Thanks so much you've been a HUGE help in clarifying this for me.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

...I took Jet there almost 2 years ago, thought she had pox, treated her but it wouldn't go away, turned out to be a type of cancer in her throat and sinus....

I GOT the Valbazen. I read about dosage. I'm just wondering now if I should go through the trouble of treating her if I already got her cured (I think). In other words, she "seems" fine now, I really don't feel like terrorizing her for five days if I don't have to - which is how I feel anyway. That's why I was wondering about how SG and Valbazen compare in terms of what bugs they actually get. On the other hand, since worms may build resistance, I don't want to overdo it either. I'm thinking I'll wait on actually using the Valbazen and use that next time. I'm also thinking of getting a scope and doing my own floatation. Anyone ever do that? I just read about it. Amazing what you can find on the net. Thanks again Kathy, you are amazing you come up with that info so quick.

My point exactly. I thought I had a disease I needed to treat but the necropsy told me she had cancer. I would have prolonged her misery and unnecessarily treated the flock for whatever. $55 and the flock was saved from unnecessary meds, she was out of her misery and I wouldn't have fretted and spent money that I didn't have.
I found it a bargain.

If she's fine now, don't treat.
If it ain't broke - don't fix it.
The more you treat, the more problems you'll create.

@ChickenCanoe - yes, you are right. I do take mine to the lab if I can't solve it and don't know what the problem is. But a vet is out of the question. She seems improved now - I'm just being Motherly lol.

You're right. A vet is usually out of the question. I didn't suggest that. Vets would be a good idea if there were more of them with poultry experience but there aren't. For poultry, it's usually a waste of money in my experience. - my apologies to the 3 vets in my area that are actually good poultry vets and worth their weight in gold.

 

[2greenboyz]

Thanks so much ChickenCanoe, you make some very good points and put my mind at ease now. I'll quit worrying. I'm going to do a test run tho and do a group fecal test through the lab that Kathy mentioned so I know what to do next time. I wasn't aware that they would do that.

When I had Jet, I was about to treat everyone with the copper sulfate treatment for pox prevention but never did, so I hear you on treating unnecessarily. I had already treated Jet with other meds for what looked for all the world to be pox, finally ended up taking her to San Berdoo and like you, she's out of her misery and the flock is saved from unnecessary meds. You are so lucky to have 3 good vets in your area. We have vets here who see "exotics" and charge accordingly. It's ridiculous. Thanks for your help. I appreciate all your time you took for me.

 

[dawg53]

Thanks so much ChickenCanoe, you make some very good points and put my mind at ease now. I'll quit worrying. I'm going to do a test run tho and do a group fecal test through the lab that Kathy mentioned so I know what to do next time. I wasn't aware that they would do that.

When I had Jet, I was about to treat everyone with the copper sulfate treatment for pox prevention but never did, so I hear you on treating unnecessarily. I had already treated Jet with other meds for what looked for all the world to be pox, finally ended up taking her to San Berdoo and like you, she's out of her misery and the flock is saved from unnecessary meds. You are so lucky to have 3 good vets in your area. We have vets here who see "exotics" and charge accordingly. It's ridiculous. Thanks for your help. I appreciate all your time you took for me.

I remember your case concerning Jet. For future reference, copper sulfate wont prevent nor treat fowl pox. It's used to treat blackhead and canker.
As far as wormer resistance goes, it takes a long time for birds to build resistance against one particular wormer. I've been using valbazen and safeguard for a long time in my birds, no signs of resistance at all. However I've personally seen resistance with ivermectin in my birds against roundworms. This is why we rotate wormers.
The price of one bottle of valbazen and one bottle of safeguard, including shipping costs with both products having 2 to 3 year expiration dates costs almost as much as having two or three fecals tested at a vets office (depending where you live.) You have two of the best broad spectrum wormers on the market to use in poultry.
There's no guesswork what type of worms a bird might have since both these wormers wipe out all worms except tapeworms (safeguard.) No need to use one particular wormer to wipe out one particular worm, such as wazine. A vet will give you a broad spectrum wormer anyway, such as panacur aka fenbendazole aka safeguard...at a costly price! I can tell you from experience that if a bird has large roundworms, they probably have unseen capillary worms too. This is what a broad spectrum wormer does, wipes them all out and saves you money for years to come.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I'm in a substantial metro area so there are lots of vets. When I thought I had a problem with roundworms, I was about to treat but decided to get a fecal first. I called about 20 of the closest vets and most said they couldn't read a chicken fecal sample. I said, "worms are worms, it doesn't matter what animal did the deed". - to no avail. The few that said they would, would only do so if I brought in the 'patient'. I said, "which of these 60 chickens do you want me to bring in?"
Finally I found a vet about 45 minutes away NE of me in Illinois (more rural area) that would read a fecal without seeing the patient. Turns out they didn't have worms but clostridium bacterial infection. If I had just wormed, which was unnecessary, I wouldn't have solved the problem and it would have continued to get worse - perhaps infecting other flocks.
The really good poultry vets are about 45 min to an hour in the other direction on the opposite side of town so it was a tossup. They're good avian vets and keep poultry themselves.

Many university vet schools across the country have closed their poultry departments over the years. Most poultry vets work the large commercial farms.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I thought the resistance developed was with the target worm, not the host.

http://genome.wustl.edu/projects/detail/drug-resistance-in-parasitic-worms-cip/

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/controlgoatparasites.html

http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=25878

ETA

I think location matters a lot too. You guys in the SE or any warm moist climate may be right to worm on a schedule.
It's +5 F out there right now, I don't think the worms are too prolific now.
I have wormed a rooster once but that's it.

Just like with antibiotics and bacterial resistance, underdosing anthelmintics promotes the development of resistance.