Rats

[Howard E]

Guess you didn't read my post either. Food flicked on the ground is not sanitation. Any system that allows it is feeding the rats.

Rats cannot chew through metal. Not sheet metal nor metal wire. They can chew through just about anything else. A sealed metal container is rat proof.

I actually have and use Al's rat proof feeder. That is because the metal feeder I was using allowed chickens to spill feed on the ground. Not rats, but the mice were in heaven. When I switched to his feeder, my feed loss went to practically nothing and the mice went away.

It is about the only method I have ever found that allows chickens free access to feed on demand, yet excludes rats, mice and other vermin like sparrows and starlings.

 

[Howard E]

As for river rats, there is no such thing. They are the same Norway (brown) rats that are found all over the world.

We can all sense your frustration, but as you describe it, the rats are winning. They have food, they have water and they have shelter. Of the three, the magic bullet you are looking for is found in restricting rats access to feed. Until you can get on top of that, you will continue spinning your wheels in search of an effective solution.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Please read my posts before touting metal containers for feed. I have 6 of them and I put my shavings in some and also my nest box straw. I empty all waterers at night. The rats are coming out during the day time and eating chicken feed that has been flicked out of feeders. And drinking water. They will eat the cat food and I'm about to ask my doc to write me a prescription for Warfarin. They are living under my off the ground coop and scurry under at the first sight of me. They are getting feed in the coop also. Seems to me there must be some smart person who could build a flick proof feeder.
Limiting feed is not the answer. They don't eat much. You can't have one pellet on the ground because they will find it. They don't hibernate so winter is not going to get rid of them. I have had chickens for 3 summers and this is the first time I've had rats. My neighbors lost their chickens and I believe this is where I got rats from. Besides I live lest that 200 feet from a major River. Ever here of river rats.

Howard E has done some of the best work on BYC on dealing with rats. You really, really, really, ought to listen to his advice. Search his back posts and find one called Rats 101 or something similar, it is the definitive guide for stopping rodent infestations.

Not all feeders allow chickens to flick feed out, my feeder has the 1/2" inward lip that stops 95% of the birds from raking feed out, then the feeder lip extension stops the rest of them. Most feeders are made pretty to sell and easy for the birds to use without a thought to feed raking. My feeder is made to stop rodents and wild birds and feed waste. Like you said, feed on the ground isn't helping.

Limiting the feed isn't the answer? They don't eat much? Oh my.... Limiting the feed is the only sure way of eliminating rats in a coop. And they eat a lot. Many reviews on our feeder mention a huge reduction in feed used, two, three, even four times if it is wild birds that are the problem. If you think you have ten to twelve rats you likely have twice that number and dozens of babies in the nest.

Here is a clue for you that you wrote yourself. Your belief is that when your neighbor lost their chickens the rats came to your coop. Ya think? Seems like feed elimination at your neighbors (unless you think they kept feeding after the chickens were dead) worked like a charm, the rats were smart enough to move and find another coop that was willing to feed rats.

Another thing, 200 feet from a river... rats and mice are known to live within a few dozen yards of their food source and no further. Rodents do not have big territories because the most dangerous thing in their life is traveling searching for a source of food. The predators pick them off, birds of prey, foxes, coyotes, domestic cats and dogs, snakes, all sorts of animals will kill and eat rodents. A rodent that travels 200 feet often isn't going to survive. Rodents leave a stream of urine as they travel and some birds of prey can see in different wave lengths and that urine stream is like a neon sign.

The amazing thing is that you are thinking of spending hundreds of dollars on a concrete slab and burying wire. The rats will love that slab to tunnel under. A darn feeder will cost a tenth of that and take a tenth of the time to install and will actually work.

But one thing, please, please, please do not buy my feeder. In fact I am going to watch feeder sales from Maine in the future. You wouldn't be successful with a feeder as your mind is made up and no one is going to convince you to follow the instructions. I am going to recommend the grandpa feeder and buy it off Amazon so you can return it.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Which one works?

Please read my posts before asking questions like this. I have already said that poison will work in that reply I gave, it will work over and over and over again. That is sarcasm, if you were to find a poison that worked the next population will move in a week later. How many posts have already been made stating that poison works for one or two rats before they wise up?

There is ONE exception and even that doesn't solve the problem forever. Poison works like a charm AFTER you have installed a treadle feeder that is actually rat proof. Because the rats and mice are now starving more will eat the bait. But when doing that you also are killing off their natural predators. But if you are just willing to wait another few days the rodents will leave like they left your neighbor's coop once they stopped feeding the rodents. Too bad they didn't actually do that, instead their chickens appear to have been killed by predators, probably because they were drawn to the coop because of all the rats.

Now what happens when they leave your coop? Many will be killed and eaten as they try to find a source of food that can support their numbers. In most ecosystems the carrying capacity of natural food is quite low, in developed countries that is. There will already be wild rodents living in most of the good territories. If we are talking about barns where spilled feed is available or undigested feed in poop once again there will be an existing population that is kept in check by the amount of food available and by natural predators.

Howard E mentioned the rat surge after restaurants closed down. Each restaurant had its own colony of rats and surrounding colonies that constantly fight to expand or to keep their territory. Existing colonies aren't welcoming in stragglers, they will drive them off or kill them. When the rats leave an existing territory they have a steep path to climb if they are to survive. Your rats just got lucky that your coop wasn't using a proper feeder so the survived the food source collapse at your neighbor's coop.

 

[Al Gerhart]

I got a rat issue too. Was interested in your comments about ex-lax and potato flakes.
Willing to try it. But has it got rid of the rats? Either by death or they go else where?
I live semi rural area. I think they come into my garden into my duck run steal the food and store it under my decking. Not seen any nests. I also recommend dont have artificial grass. They burrow under it. Iv tried poison and traps.
Last winter and spring they were there and now back again. No issues in the summer. Hibernation time for them I guess.
Reluctant to use poison as it's a slow death for them and a risk a duck might eat a bit. Front garden I get plenty of cats but they dont go into back garden for feast on rats

The problem with feeders isn't the feeders, it is the people. So many will refuse to learn from others that have found something that works or they refuse to spend the money needed to fix the problem. Feeders are expensive, shipping sometimes costs half the cost of the feeder if it is going half way across the country. Or cheap shipping on Amazon but you give away 40% of the sales price and have to double the cost of the feeder. We are also living in a time where a can of chili that cost 80 cents ten years ago and now costs $2.00, government made inflation devaluing our currency.

These crazy schemes and old wives tales never work. Soda pop, plaster, now ex lax and potato flakes, nor does attempting to make a feeder rodent proof. I mean it would be possible at great expense, but who would spend thousands of dollars when $100 would fix the problem?

Rube Goldberg contraptions to trap the mice are fun to look into, till you learn no matter how clever the trap, the rats figure out the danger in short order. Even if you were to clean them out, the next batch will find your rat shangri-la and move in the vacant territory.

Sounds like they are finding plenty of natural food in the summer if they are disappearing in the summer. Just like mice in homes, more of an autumn and winter thing, trying to find a warm place.

And to beat a dead horse as it seems that is what burns through, stop feeding the rats and the rats will leave. To do that you need the right feeder that is actually rat proof, you need some full size birds to operate the treadle for any bantams in your flock, you have to find other ways of feeding chicks and pullets till they are a couple of pounds. That said, if you have already had a feeder in use you won't have a current population of rats or mice and it is very likely that the few weeks between feathered out chicks and a two pound weight isn't likely to generate a rat problem.

 

[Al Gerhart]

The trough is not too shallow. A full size rat can sleep in there. It's like 7-8 inches deep. If you would read what I've written you would see how they flick it out. Again, for the cheap seats, the birds eat in a corner and flick the food away as they do that it piles up and over flows the trough. Pretty easy concept if chickens have figured it out.

ETA: deep litter and PDZ work wonders and I won't have anyone breaking into my coop to steel copper wire. They do it all the time on new construction homes and locked up like Fort Knox.

At this point I am replying not to you but to anyone that would be misled by what you wrote. No feeder shipments to Maine for awhile unless I am sure they are not you.

Your statements are nonsense. First you appear to be saying the trough is "not too narrow", I have to interpret that for it to make any sense, you must mean that the trough is too deep.
Common sense would say that the deeper the trough the less likely a hen could rake feed out. I designed the feeder with feed waste in mind, of course the trough is deep and wide. A shallow trough would easily allow feed waste, the Feed o Matic was a perfect example of that before it was taken off Amazon for excessive returns.

We ship maybe two feeder lip extenders a month and half of them or more are ordered with a feeder before the customer knows it is even needed. That shows you how tiny a percentage of flocks will have a hen that can rake feed out of a properly designed feeders and the lip extenders work every single time. Usually feed raking comes from people putting treats or using mixed feed and the hens are searching for the goodies. If they would stop doing that the hen would stop raking feed.

Worse, you ignore previous customers like Howard E that say otherwise nor the several hundred reviews including all the independent sites that do not make a penny off my feeder.

Ignorance of an issue doesn't make anyone an expert on that issue. It just means they are ignorant on that issue.

 

[Howard E]

This but one of the news sources at the time.....

https://www.foxnews.com/science/cdc...-cannibal-rats-amid-covid-19-garbage-shortage

That is at the macro level. At the micro level......your property......the same potential exists. Get control of the food and you can get the upper hand on the rats.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Yeah I looked at it I see the same problems.

I canceled your order for the two feeders you placed this morning at 11:30 and refunded the Paypal payment.

I am not at all convinced that you would follow the instructions on assembling, installing, or training the birds.

These feeders are expensive to ship and a large investment for the customer, I do not accept orders where I think the feeder will not be a good fit. The small percentage I clear on a feed isn't worth a single upset customer.

I do not come here to sell feeders or convince people to buy my feeder. I come here to get feedback on both my feeder and other brands of feeders and to see what people are dealing with as far as feeder issues go. I do explain why my feeder is better when challenged and do challenge the old wives tales that are spun and why controlling your feed is the first and best step to take.

 

[WindingRoad]

As for river rats, there is no such thing. They are the same Norway (brown) rats that are found all over the world.

We can all sense your frustration, but as you describe it, the rats are winning. They have food, they have water and they have shelter. Of the three, the magic bullet you are looking for is found in restricting rats access to feed. Until you can get on top of that, you will continue spinning your wheels in search of an effective solution.

Who live near the river.

 

[WindingRoad]

Bobette I canceled your order for the two feeders you placed this morning at 11:30 and refunded the Paypal payment.

I am not at all convinced that you would follow the instructions on assembling, installing, or training the birds.

These feeders are expensive to ship and a large investment for the customer, I do not accept orders where I think the feeder will not be a good fit. The small percentage I clear on a feed isn't worth a single upset customer.

I do not come here to sell feeders or convince people to buy my feeder. I come here to get feedback on both my feeder and other brands of feeders and to see what people are dealing with as far as feeder issues go. I do explain why my feeder is better when challenged and do challenge the old wives tales that are spun and why controlling your feed is the first and best step to take.

Why wouldn't I follow instructions or assemble it correctly.Why have I posted many many times that I want to get rid of the rats. I've shown that is my goal. From buying another supposedly better feeder than I already had. From putting excess feed in METAL cans and locking them down. From cleaning up any residual feed at night and putting out motion detector lights. Buying every rat poison TSC, Wally World etc has. BTW I started with the heavy duty brown plastic trash cans winter of 18-19.. And the rats/squirrels chewed on them. I went and bought metals cans and bungee cords they chewed them off. So I bought steel bungees like cords and run them through the handle and master locked them to the bails. We have thieves here and bears.

You think,,,,, but you don't know. Do you think my ordering it would be the only way to get it. I told you in my note if it works I would be your #1 fan. If you don't want to sell to me I THINK ( and it's not a new experience for me) you are afraid it won't work and you don't want the negative comments. I am up front and I won't dupe people into buying something that doesn't work. But if someone works as stated I will sing it's praises from the top of a mountain.

I noticed they are expensive I don't mind paying for quality. But I'm not gonna pay for less. I am retired so I am frugal with my money. I've looked at your website I read a good many of the blogs and the reviews. But I would still make my own judgement and test. Even if I bought a Tesla.