Recessive Slate Turkeys (from Porter's)

[Bluegenes]

Have you guys seen the new gene Porter's brought into the US? It is just beautiful! BUT... in order to buy any poults, you must sign a very rigid contract. I really, really want this variety, and genetics is my passion in all poultry, so I find it super exciting!... But the terms of the contract makes me uncomfortable. I feel like you could even accidentally violate it and owe them $10,000. I get that it is to try to weed out anyone who isn't serious about breeding them, but still, it's pretty intense. DO you think they will have this kind of contract forever for the variety? Or if I wait a few years do you think they will start selling them without the contract? Thanks! (Picture of recessive slate and the content of the contract are both below.)

The Buyer agrees to take good care of these birds, feed and house properly. Their shelter and any fenced in area must be secure. If found to be allowed to run freely, or found to be neglected, abused or allowed to live in poor health or poor conditions the Seller has all rights to demand repossession, resale or slaughter of these birds with no refund to the Buyer. The death, injury or loss of said animal(s) due to theft, carelessness, disease, recklessness, abuse, neglect, or accident will not entitle the Buyer to any compensation from the Seller. In the event the Buyer is unable to keep these birds for any reason, the Buyer agrees to either sell to a third party Buyer which is first approved by original Seller or slaughter the remaining birds. Buyer must agree to maintain pure breeding stock as originally purchased from Seller, absolutely no crossbreeding is allowed, if Buyer has other turkey varieties an enclosure(s) separate from other varieties will have to be maintained to prevent crossbreeding. Any birds produced must be wing or leg banded with a band that has a number to identify each individual bird. Buyer will give the band numbers and sex (when known) to original Seller which will be recorded in a registry that will be maintained by original Seller. Buyer agrees to limit breeding to only what can humanely be housed without overcrowding at below said property. When new bloodlines are desired Buyer agrees to purchase only from original Seller. When Buyer desires to sell breeding stock, (egg sales not allowed) third party Buyer will have to be first approved by the original Seller. The same contract will also be used for third party Buyers, This will be provided by the original Seller to the third party Buyer before any transactions can be made. Sale price must first be approved by original Seller before any transactions can take place. Any extra birds that cannot be sold to an approved third party Buyer must be slaughtered or remain in possession of Buyer. If this contract is breached in any way a $10,000 penalty may be applied if Seller deems it necessary for damage caused to the preservation of this variety and all involved birds with the recessive slate gene must either be immediately slaughtered or sent to Seller at Buyer's expense. If Seller is forced to physically repossess said birds, Buyer will pay for all travel expenses incurred by Seller to do so.

 

[MillefleurGirl137]

Wow! That's a lot! They're gorgeous though! I think I'd wait awhile, unless you think it would be worth it

 

[Bluegenes]

I'll definitely wait if I have reason to think they will be sold without that panic attack inducing contract in the near(ish) future... but I wonder if they intend to keep the gene "in house" ad infinitum. I also don't understand why they say they cannot be crossed with any other turkeys. First of all, in my understanding, most varieties of heritage turkeys are not quite distinct "breeds" like we think of with most other poultry species, but are closer to color variations within a breed (kind of like guineas). They are simply heritage sized turkeys with XYZ genes giving them XYZ phenotype. There is some variation in size and temperament, but not much. So it'd be wonderful for those of us interested in genetics to be able to study how this fascinating new gene interacts with all the other genes in other turkey varieties. (And you could do this even while maintaining the purity of the original birds (E.g. running recessive slate toms with recessive slate hens but also hens of the other varieties you wish to experiment with.) And second, recessive slate is a simple recessive on a bronze based bird with no other modifiers, so you could broaden the gene pool (my understanding is that the gene came from just a few poults hatched from fertile eggs imported from Australia) by crossing to a bronze and then crossing those progeny back to the recessive slates.

 

[MillefleurGirl137]

Maybe they want to creat a pure strain. I'll bet in a few years you'll be able to crossbreed them

 

[Bluegenes]

Yeah, or I assume they are probably crossing them with other genotypes right now -- genetics is kind of their thing -- but just don't want others doing it yet?

(They also have "recessive lilac" which is bronze based, + recessive slate, + a red gene, and I believe they created that variety themselves already, so I don't think they are keeping a completely pure strain.)

 

[RuBaltLion]

Have you guys seen the new gene Porter's brought into the US? It is just beautiful! BUT... in order to buy any poults, you must sign a very rigid contract. I really, really want this variety, and genetics is my passion in all poultry, so I find it super exciting!... But the terms of the contract makes me uncomfortable. I feel like you could even accidentally violate it and owe them $10,000. I get that it is to try to weed out anyone who isn't serious about breeding them, but still, it's pretty intense. DO you think they will have this kind of contract forever for the variety? Or if I wait a few years do you think they will start selling them without the contract? Thanks! (Picture of recessive slate and the content of the contract are both below.)

The Buyer agrees to take good care of these birds, feed and house properly. Their shelter and any fenced in area must be secure. If found to be allowed to run freely, or found to be neglected, abused or allowed to live in poor health or poor conditions the Seller has all rights to demand repossession, resale or slaughter of these birds with no refund to the Buyer. The death, injury or loss of said animal(s) due to theft, carelessness, disease, recklessness, abuse, neglect, or accident will not entitle the Buyer to any compensation from the Seller. In the event the Buyer is unable to keep these birds for any reason, the Buyer agrees to either sell to a third party Buyer which is first approved by original Seller or slaughter the remaining birds. Buyer must agree to maintain pure breeding stock as originally purchased from Seller, absolutely no crossbreeding is allowed, if Buyer has other turkey varieties an enclosure(s) separate from other varieties will have to be maintained to prevent crossbreeding. Any birds produced must be wing or leg banded with a band that has a number to identify each individual bird. Buyer will give the band numbers and sex (when known) to original Seller which will be recorded in a registry that will be maintained by original Seller. Buyer agrees to limit breeding to only what can humanely be housed without overcrowding at below said property. When new bloodlines are desired Buyer agrees to purchase only from original Seller. When Buyer desires to sell breeding stock, (egg sales not allowed) third party Buyer will have to be first approved by the original Seller. The same contract will also be used for third party Buyers, This will be provided by the original Seller to the third party Buyer before any transactions can be made. Sale price must first be approved by original Seller before any transactions can take place. Any extra birds that cannot be sold to an approved third party Buyer must be slaughtered or remain in possession of Buyer. If this contract is breached in any way a $10,000 penalty may be applied if Seller deems it necessary for damage caused to the preservation of this variety and all involved birds with the recessive slate gene must either be immediately slaughtered or sent to Seller at Buyer's expense. If Seller is forced to physically repossess said birds, Buyer will pay for all travel expenses incurred by Seller to do so.

I was looking at their website and don't see anything about contract with purchase. I know there is the poult ordering policy but tells you like minimum number of purchase. Have you actually called them and talked to them? Just wondering. It also looks like it's just the recessive ones and not all turkey colors.

 

[Bluegenes]

Yeah the contract is only for the varieties that have the recessive slate gene (Recessive Slate and Recessive Lilac)

 

[530729]

I looked into them a couple weeks ago. Intense eh?!

 

[sylviethecochin]

Sounds like they want to keep a hold on the genetics as long as possible in order to keep the price high for as long as possible. I mean, some people are strangely protective of a strain (I know a man who says he's in mental pain when he hears about his sold Herefords being used to make Angus crossbreeds) but that's an absolutely ridiculous contract.

Sounds like they're in it for the money to me. I wouldn't be looking for the terms of the contract to change any time soon.

 

[Bluegenes]

Sounds like they want to keep a hold on the genetics as long as possible in order to keep the price high for as long as possible. I mean, some people are strangely protective of a strain (I know a man who says he's in mental pain when he hears about his sold Herefords being used to make Angus crossbreeds) but that's an absolutely ridiculous contract.

Sounds like they're in it for the money to me. I wouldn't be looking for the terms of the contract to change any time soon.

Well, I don't think it's for the price, because the recessive slates are exactly the same price as their other varieties. I think it's more to keep track of the genetics.