Red Laced Cornish X and project talk (pics p. 8)

[galanie]

I agree just go to any show and see how many cornish you see or if you want an even smaller number see how many breeders are there.  The writing is on the wall unless these breeders start helping out those that want to keep them going.

 I agree about the shows determining the standard. Cornish that win are short legged usually and that is not what is in the standard or the illistrations.  My strain of DC the hens legs thicken at about 2 years old and they look to have thin legs as pullets. The cocks legs are thick at 6 months.

You just provided an answer to my question without realizing it. How about breeding to the standard rather than what wins shows? That, I think, would be great. Or maybe I'm just stupid and that's what kfacres is planning to do and I just didn't understand that. It would never get you placed in "top breeders" (and yes I know, those doing so couldn't care less about that) but it sounds like a good plan.

And maybe I'm not even qualified to talk about it since I don't raise cornish and don't plan to soon. My only one currently is a hatchery dark that is pretty long legged for a cornish but she's wide enough and heavy enough for me and I like her. I doubt she'd even win a prize at a county fair. I wouldn't mind having a run full of birds like her. But I'd never claim to be raising good birds with those either. It would just be for practical purposes.

 

[kfacres]

Sounds like something I would say about my birds... I don't frankly care what anyone else has to say about them- whether they are up to the SOP or not: they work for what I want them to do= and look good in my eyes doing it...

but she's wide enough and heavy enough for me and I like her. I doubt she'd even win a prize at a county fair. I wouldn't mind having a run full of birds like her. But I'd never claim to be raising good birds with those either. It would just be for practical purposes.

 

[Cedarknob]

I have only been to a few APA shows; one had no large fowl Cornish, another had a few, and another had quite a few but they had come from all over the nation. There are simply not a lot of large fowl Cornish breeders around, though I think the breed is making a come back. At the shows with Cornish, the birds winning looked much like mine, and my darks came from show winners that breed naturally. Some may prefer a yet shorter shank than mine have, and it is OK with me for them to breed whatever they want, but frankly I have not seen that type at a show, only pictures of them. I've been advised that the males need room to move around and stay fit, pasture range being preferred, in order for them to stay in condition to breed, and that older males may need to be A.I.ed to get maximum fertility in the eggs, especially if they are not kept in shape or if used on more narrow bodied hens. My birds are young, and I have only a little experience of my own, so learning as I go. I don't consider my young white cock leggy or narrow LOL, and I watched him mount a little, narrow bodied Easter Egger yesterday in perfect position. If she does not lay fertile eggs, it will be a fertility problem and not a structural issue preventing him from covering her. I do intend to breed a meat bird for eating, otherwise I would not have joined this thread, and I do consider my pure Cornish meat birds, and their eggs too valuable at this point in time to eat. If they lay too many for me to incubate, I figure to sell them, but with so few hens, I doubt that I'll have extras. I would like to put a real Cornish on the table, but at this point in time it would have to be real knot head if I ate one, and I would not sell that individual to breed with.

Kfacres, if you are willing to produce a top quality show sheep to sell to an elite buyer willing to part with a boat load of money, is it so wrong for Cornish breeders to do the same, and to not want to see what they consider culls to be dumped on to the market? They would have to sell those birds to people with the blind faith that those people are not going to use the breeder's name to breed and sell poor quality for showing, and I would think that an established breeder, having spent much time and money trying or succeeding at getting a good percentage of their birds to a level of quality they want, is not going to take that risk. Nor with the breed so scarce, sell a good bird to someone just to cross on their barnyard hens. It took me awhile to understand their views, it was very frustrating trying to locate good Cornish, and I confess I judged the breeders as selfish. Maybe some are selfish, but that is not for me to judge, and I doubt that me telling them I think they are being selfish or stupid will change them or result in them selling me a Cornish. LOL As far as A.I.ing their birds, I consider A.I. a valuable tool for any breeder wanting to use it, but it can be, and probably is, used to the detriment of all breeds. This old world is crowded with hungry people wanting to eat meat at an affordable price, much of the meat being supplied by animals produced by A.I. and or bred and raised in confinement, and they have replaced the breeds I think that should be preserved, which replaced or were bred into a different look from when they wandered over many acres of unpopulated land, or were bred for high wool production, or high fat meat, and other characteristics no longer desired. There is enough money in many breeds to make them financially self supporting only if bred for show. Will your sheep flock pay for themselves and make enough profit to keep if sold only on the mutton and wool market? I do not know a solution for this, I'm trying to produce some of my own own food, and trying to preserve a breed, and develope another, but certainly can not feed even myself, let alone others, at a price low enough to be really affordable or attractive if I figure total production costs including my time and land, unless I resort to using more commercial management and modern strains.

 

[KatyTheChickenLady]

Well . . . I gues I crowed to soon lol pun intended My big boy had a heart attack this morning. I let him out, he was running around just fine and then BAM right in front of me. I weighed him . . . wanna guess???

 

[Cedarknob]

Well . . . I gues I crowed to soon lol pun intended My big boy had a heart attack this morning. I let him out, he was running around just fine and then BAM right in front of me. I weighed him . . . wanna guess???

Sorry to hear that Katy. 15 lbs?

 

[galanie]

KatyTheChickenLady : NO!! He didn't! Ok, yes, he did. still, that's awful. Guess? OK I'll bite. 10 lbs? Just a guess from someone that knows zilch lol.

 

[KatyTheChickenLady]

the son (the smaller one) is 10 lbs. My big boy after death (why does everything seem heavier when dead???) 15.8 lbs!!!

 

[galanie]

the son (the smaller one) is 10 lbs. My big boy after death (why does everything seem heavier when dead???) 15.8 lbs!!!

Told ya I didn't know squat! That is a big boy!
I'm more used to the fluffier ones, where a 10 pounder looks twice as big as your 15 pounder.

 

[kfacres]

Kfacres, if you are willing to produce a top quality show sheep to sell to an elite buyer willing to part with a boat load of money, is it so wrong for Cornish breeders to do the same, and to not want to see what they consider culls to be dumped on to the market?
You never know what that person will do with that animal- i've been burned many times. I am to the point, that as long as I get the money that I think they are worth: who cares what happens to them?

Unles you are freezing semen for future use-- what advantage lies with AI'ing when the cock bird is still alive and on the premis? I don't see Cornish people shipping semen here and there? What advantage?

Will your sheep flock pay for themselves and make enough profit to keep if sold only on the mutton and wool market?
To be honest, I am to the point in my life where I would rather sell to the market- and make more true profit- than I would selling breeding stock- I know call me a back stabber- but I can take my feeder lambs- right off the ewe- with less than a bag of creep feed in them-- send them to market for $3 or more a pound-- and make more TRUE profit than I can on the ram lambs that I keep back to peddle as stud rams all summer long.

Last spring, we lucked into selling our bottom ender ram lambs for $3.05 a lb at 40-60 days of age- right off mom. That is an income of $183 per lamb- minus about $10 of feed-- IMO is far better profit than the ram lambs I hung on to and sold for $5 and 600 in June and July as stud rams. Why? I didn't have time- and my time is money- or feed in them. I had nearly $200 in feed in each ram lamb- plus shearing, deworming, feet trimming, and sometimes delivery costs... Not to mention the possiblity of those people who will sometimes constantely complain for years to come.

For instance: sold a ram lamb a couple years ago, started out as the best investment that person made- then about breeding season he was a worthless animal that needed to go to the sale barn. Until his first lambs were born- he then started to like him... Really hated him all summer- until state fair and Louisville where his offspring were named champion and won several classes.. and now- he's ready to change the breed forever with that ram.

This spring- I do not plan to sell but one stud ram lamb- I have a guy offering me 2k plus- and it will be the only one I part with- the rest go to have their throats cut.

I have not sold a ewe lamb to market- in my history in the sheep business. This spring will be the first time I do so.

But the difference: I do not have people banging on my doors wanting to buy my animals for rediculous prices... I have people wanting to buy them for market price- or less. This breed is full of cheap skates. For the same profit margin- I don't have to worry about the headache. The guy who's offering me more than 1k each- will get his pick of whatever he wants. That kind of cash is worth is...

The chicken equivelent to a 1k sheep- is a $50 or $100 bird or breeding pair.

 

[chickened]

Yep. I make all my feed money and pay for my Cornish projects from my POL and chicks of my DP breeds. They sell all year long to backyard chicken folks that just want a layer. If I had to rely on Cornish sales of a few every 6 months I would not be able to justify breeding as many as I do. And it has to be a profit for me to do this or I simply could not do it. It goes against my grain to not do anything at a profit, I just cannot do it it really bugs me mentally.