Revenge was mine today GRAPHIC PICS PLEASE BE WARNED

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Interesting thread here with a lot of diverse opinions.

What started out as simple post about a pretty scary situation has surfaced a much bigger and more complex issue where it's really difficult to find a balanced perspective.

I live in a large city and we have coyotes roaming around. Heck, just a few months ago here in Chicago we had a coyote stroll into a Quizno's sandwich shop and try to jump the counter to grab some food. This happened during a weekday, in broad daylight, on Michigan Avenue almost directly across the street from the Art Institute -- an extremely busy area of town with lots of tourists, business people and students walking around!

The coyote misjudged the jump and ended up landing in a cooler display of sodas and beverages...and there it stayed until animal control came and picked it up. The news footage of this was pretty funny.

Just a few days before this, my sister reported to me that she saw a coyote loping along the el train tracks towards downtown! She had seen this in the middle of the day while waiting for a train and at a point where the el train tracks were running on ground level, but down the middle of a major expressway. (Don't know what Mr. or Ms. Coyote would do when he/she got to the part of the system where the tracks truly did elevate.)

One more thing to mention: the suburbs around here are experiencing terrible overpopulation problems with deer. The deer are not only a nuisance because they eat landscaping, but the number of auto accidents due to deer collisions is mounting.

My point is that these creatures have learned/are learning to adapt to living in the margins of our communities. Too bad we humans haven't yet been able to figure out a better way to balance the situation or take advantage of the natural processes around us to balance it better.

If there was a safe way to introduce wolves (a major deer predator) into the 'burbs to cull some of the deer, that may be an acceptable solution to many folks. After all, it is a natural process. But we haven't figured out a safe way to introduce predators to areas with large numbers of humans.

Personally, I think having the coyotes roaming around the city isn't too bad. We have plenty of rats that need to be eliminated. (In fact, I commented to my sister regarding her coyote sighting, "Well, maybe it has a den in the subway tunnels and is subsisting on rats.").

If Mr. or Ms. Coyote would just stick to hunting those "nuisance" animals (including the "cute bunnies" that regularly mow down the lettuce, beans, etc. that my neighbors and I try to grow), then I'm sure we'd all feel comfortable with that.

The situation is just more complex than that, though.
 
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My comment was about the fact that coyotes have only become so common because they stepped into the ecological void left by wolves. It's ironic: ranchers thought they had solved one problem, but instead created another.

The cattle pens was a reference to how seriously messed up ecosystems get when you try to practice mono-specism. Ideally cattle should be raised in an open grassland with birds (like chickens), pigs, foxes, etc. By doing so, the grass land is protected, the birds follow the cattle and so aerate the soil, the pigs break down the manure left by the cattle etc. Removing grass from the situation and trying to force finish cattle on a diet of grain, on a feedlot with no other animals, means you have basically sick cattle (since cattle were never meant to eat grain and hence the antibiotics) and you have the problem of trying to get rid of all this (now basically toxic) manure. It's essentially poisoned the ground in Kansas to the extent that you can actually see the damage from space.
 
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Bubba, how many ranchers have actually lost their farm because of predation? All the ranchers and farmers I know, their beef is with the USDA and the farm bill. NOT predators. Let's not overstate the problem here.
 
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Broncbuster, see my question to Bubba. I'd love for someone to give me an example of a rancher or farmer they know that had to declare bankruptcy because of predation.

Frankly if they did, they were a lousy rancher and probably should have packed it in anyway.

I have friends that ranch in Montana. Near Yellowstone. You know, the place with all the wolves. You know how they deal with it? The old-fashioned way. They actually shepherd! Imagine that. They've found that a few good border collies and a little bit of caution basically take care of any serious predator threats. They say they just look at predators, not as enemy combatants, but like they would the weather. Something inevitable that they just work around.

As for your contention that humans were in danger here, I want to point out that I have yet to see anyone on this thread mention yet that humans were being threatened. The original poster was concerned about his chickens, not his children. Look, I love my pets too, and I go to great lengths to protect them. But I don't kid myself; this is nothing more than favoring one species over another.

If my cat were to get run over by a car, its my fault for not keeping better tabs on the cat. I don't go and slash the tires on my neighbor's car.
 
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I couldnt agree with you more. Your statments have proven to me that you dont know as much about wolves and coyotes as you think you do. Just because you are pro-predator, making things up on thier behalf does nothing to help the situation. Things like that are exactally what got northern Wisconsin to the spot it is in today.
 
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Broncbuster, see my question to Bubba. I'd love for someone to give me an example of a rancher or farmer they know that had to declare bankruptcy because of predation.

Frankly if they did, they were a lousy rancher and probably should have packed it in anyway.

I have friends that ranch in Montana. Near Yellowstone. You know, the place with all the wolves. You know how they deal with it? The old-fashioned way. They actually shepherd! Imagine that. They've found that a few good border collies and a little bit of caution basically take care of any serious predator threats. They say they just look at predators, not as enemy combatants, but like they would the weather. Something inevitable that they just work around.

As for your contention that humans were in danger here, I want to point out that I have yet to see anyone on this thread mention yet that humans were being threatened. The original poster was concerned about his chickens, not his children. Look, I love my pets too, and I go to great lengths to protect them. But I don't kid myself; this is nothing more than favoring one species over another.

If my cat were to get run over by a car, its my fault for not keeping better tabs on the cat. I don't go and slash the tires on my neighbor's car.

Scat, You're right, I don't knw of one farmer/rancher who has went bankrupt, but that's only because in Texas there are no laws saying that predatory animals cannot be killed! If they could not kill the coyotes, cats, wild hogs, etc.... they would lose the farm because it would become an epidemic.
As far as my "contention" about peoples lives being in danger, it was in reference to your posts on the Bobcat killed in Florida, where a 5 yr old was in danger!

Yes, I favor one species over all others. Humans are that species because I AM A HUMAN! Guess what every species favors their own over others IT'S NATURAL!

If my neighbor drove up in my driveway and ran over my cat on purpose, I'd do more than slash his tires!
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Was the 5-year old really in danger? I think more 5-year olds get injured by the family dog in this country.

As for species favoritism: I meant livestock over wild species silly. It might be natural, but its NOT always smart of us as a species. :)

And, ok, if a neighbor ran my cat over on purpose yeah, I'd do a lot more than slash his tires too.
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..Just because you are pro-predator

Correction. I am pro-environment, not pro-predator. I just understand that predators are PART of a healthy environment.
 
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Well we are in 100% agreement then, predators are and should be a part of a healthy enviroment. The key word is part, specifically a small part where it doesnt drastically affect the rest of the enviroment. Thats why nusance animals are removed from the enviroment and thats what this whole thread is about. Thas why I practise keeping my local enviroment in balance.

For the record though, I still think you are pro-predator and dont know as much about wolves and coyotes as you think you do. All of your posts prove that.
 
>For the record though, I still think you are pro-predator and dont know as much about wolves and coyotes as you think you do. All of your posts prove that.

How so? If I'm wrong on something I've said, by all means please correct me. This is a topic I've studied quite a bit actually. I was an Animal Science Major for a time, so I'm genuinely interested/
 
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