Rhode Island Red yes or no?

[elevatedruby]

Just curious, which hatcheries do this? Can you show me where this information comes fi c

Some people call any Red that does not have a certain look a Production Red, and other times it is a cross. In the end, you have to decide if you want a look or a chicken for a particular purpose.

so how is it that my hatchery RIR standards came with one pullet that is really deep red compared to the rest. that doesnt make her a different breed just determined off of their feather shade. its just that a RIR is supposed to be a RIR a PRoduction red is a hybrid and what makes new hampshires. im pretty sure its not the color of their plumage it is the genes weak or strong

 

[elevatedruby]

She looks like 2 of my girls.

Please help here if its Rhode Island Red or not? All I need is answer " yes " or " no " because someone said this is not RIR. Thank you!

in a better correct way than showing him tighter gened birds and saying these are RIR and see the difference. Yes deaf, they are rhode island reds just that the genes in the parents werent standard of perfection quality show fancy fowl. they still are RIR. everybodies birds are better when you have been doing it for a while. thats how skills are aquired. dont worry if they are the right bloodline it doesnt matter whos **** dont stink as long as you know where you got the birds from. people can talk down about the hatchery chicks, but those will sell alot easier on the street or store, because most people will think the hatchery kind is the correct look over dang near magenta

 

[elevatedruby]

That is not a pure bred Rhode Island Red it is however what is referred to as a "Hatchery" Rhode Island Red.


Matt

if you put a RIR rooster with a RIR hen out pops a RIR chick they are different standards but they are still RIR.if they put a RIR with a leg horn isnt hat what makes the production reds. so he still does have RIR

 

[junebuggena]

Rhode Island Reds have a distinct body shape and coloring. New Hampshires also have a distinct shape and coloring. It's not just the coloring that makes them distinct breeds. Production Reds are generic red birds not bred to conform to any standard. Using these definitions, 99% of hatchery RIRs and New Hampshires are actually Production Reds. They all have the same general build to them and that differs greatly from the birds that are bred to standard. Coloring is how the hatcheries determine which red birds get put in which breeding pen. They pay no attention to any other aspect of breeding other than egg production. If it looks close enough to the breed, that's what it gets labeled.

 

[elevatedruby]

Rhode Island Reds have a distinct body shape and coloring. New Hampshires also have a distinct shape and coloring. It's not just the coloring that makes them distinct breeds. Production Reds are generic red birds not bred to conform to any standard. Using these definitions, 99% of hatchery RIRs and New Hampshires are actually Production Reds. They all have the same general build to them and that differs greatly from the birds that are bred to standard. Coloring is how the hatcheries determine which red birds get put in which breeding pen. They pay no attention to any other aspect of breeding other than egg production. If it looks close enough to the breed, that's what it gets labeled.

ok well first 5 sectences are contradicting. how can they have generic red bird but theyeach have their own shape and color. and be sold as 3 different things since they all have different looks, and if everybody looks at the cackle hatchery youtube vids the production red is dark like freds hens nd RIR are less dark but more red. how is a legit business not getting the comments from people who breed REAL RIR saying that you are selling production reds as all their reds. they have different videos of each breed stock

 

[elevatedruby]

ok well first 5 sectences are contradicting. how can they have generic red bird but theyeach have their own shape and color. and be sold as 3 different things since they all have different looks, and if everybody looks at the cackle hatchery youtube vids the production red is dark like freds hens nd RIR are less dark but more red. how is a legit business not getting the comments from people who breed REAL RIR saying that you are selling production reds as all their reds. they have different videos of each breed stock

and they have a comment where they do have to throw a rooster in with a little comb malfunction and anyone will listen to the actual people who have been doing this with a legit company. theycomment on their videos so if you got a question about their RIR ask them why they arent RIR and that they are Production reds.

 

[junebuggena]

ok well first 5 sectences are contradicting. how can they have generic red bird but theyeach have their own shape and color. and be sold as 3 different things since they all have different looks, and if everybody looks at the cackle hatchery youtube vids the production red is dark like freds hens nd RIR are less dark but more red. how is a legit business not getting the comments from people who breed REAL RIR saying that you are selling production reds as all their reds. they have different videos of each breed stock

They do not contradict. Rhode Island Reds are a recognized breed, with it's own specific set of traits. New Hampshires are a recognized breed, with it's own specific set of traits. Production Reds are not a recognized breed and does not have any specific traits other than they are a red feathered bird that lays tons of eggs. Hatcheries don't breed their birds to conform to breed standards. They breed purely for production. 99% of hatchery sourced chickens will somewhat resemble the breed they are sold as, but do not come close to meeting the breed standard. The RIR/Production Red/New Hampshire birds are only one example of such issues. For an even more shocking hatchery vs. show quality difference just check out Buff Orpingtons. The difference in the birds is startling. They both may be buff, have single combs, and white skin; but the similarities end there.
Are they good enough for a 4H or county fair, sure. Will they ever come close to placing at an APA sanctioned show, no way.
Cackle is one hatchery that honestly does try to improve on their stock and does keep breed standards in mind when breeding. Most hatcheries do not operate like that, though.

 

[elevatedruby]

They do not contradict. Rhode Island Reds are a recognized breed, with it's own specific set of traits. New Hampshires are a recognized breed, with it's own specific set of traits. Production Reds are not a recognized breed and does not have any specific traits other than they are a red feathered bird that lays tons of eggs. Hatcheries don't breed their birds to conform to breed standards. They breed purely for production. 99% of hatchery sourced chickens will somewhat resemble the breed they are sold as, but do not come close to meeting the breed standard. The RIR/Production Red/New Hampshire birds are only one example of such issues. For an even more shocking hatchery vs. show quality difference just check out Buff Orpingtons. The difference in the birds is startling. They both may be buff, have single combs, and white skin; but the similarities end there.
Are they good enough for a 4H or county fair, sure. Will they ever come close to placing at an APA sanctioned show, no way.
Cackle is one hatchery that honestly does try to improve on their stock and does keep breed standards in mind when breeding. Most hatcheries do not operate like that, though.

ok well yours and everyone elses tha are dang near purple look like their production reds so i guess their brood stock videos are mixed then or yall have production reds and are fibbing about it. how is a company able to sell them as RIR if they arent and they dont have a review on their website saying they lie about the breed they sale. honestly saying i have a bettter bird than a hatchery almost always sounds like a sales pitch. either way it goes. the birds deaf haas are exatly what the hatchery sent him and they look like their RIR brood stock and yall resemble the production reds at their hatchery. sorry im pretty sure they cant sell the birds looking uniform as you say they look but the brood stock for each is very different shades and somewhat on shape. so your theory of them selling productions as RIR because they look alike might be wrong.

 

[waddles99]

ok well yours and everyone elses tha are dang near purple look like their production reds so i guess their brood stock videos are mixed then or yall have production reds and are fibbing about it. how is a company able to sell them as RIR if they arent and they dont have a review on their website saying they lie about the breed they sale. honestly saying i have a bettter bird than a hatchery almost always sounds like a sales pitch. either way it goes. the birds deaf haas are exatly what the hatchery sent him and they look like their RIR brood stock and yall resemble the production reds at their hatchery. sorry im pretty sure they cant sell the birds looking uniform as you say they look but the brood stock for each is very different shades and somewhat on shape. so your theory of them selling productions as RIR because they look alike might be wrong.

If you think these "purple" birds posted by Fred and Matt here are "production reds", then you are very wrong. Are they perfectly bred to the standard? No, no bird is. But these birds are pretty much as close to the standard as you will find. When I look at them, I see fine examples of the Rhode Island Red breed. What you have to keep in mind here is, color isn't the only thing that makes the difference between a Rhode Island Red and a Production Red. Sure, it is a very defining difference, but theres more to it than that. Type, or body shape, for one thing. Also tail angle and fullness. Leg color. The list goes on and on. The "purple" birds you see in this thread definitely are not production reds.

Basically, a company can sell whatever they choose under any name they choose. Is it false advertising? To an extent, but there is nothing anyone can do about it. They are selling you a red chicken that will lay eggs. Simple. The buyer has to be partially responsible in these cases to know what is quality and what isn't, and to select birds of quality. An important thing about the hatchery birds is, they might have originated from an all RIR flock, and just been bred down and ruined. Thus, someone with no understanding of breed standards, genetics, and quality would suggest that they are RIR based on their lineage, and sell them as such. This is not the case. Chickens do not have a pedigree. It doesn't matter what they came from, it matters what they look like, and how well they meet their breeds standards. If they have RIR in their lineage but don't meet any of the breed standards, its a production red. Many of these hatcheries are mislead about these birds, and truly don't know that they are lying, just because they think they have RIR because their founding stock were RIR.


Edited by Staff

 

[junebuggena]

How can they sell Easter Eggers as Ameraucana? How do they sell Jersey Giants that only top out at 5 pounds as Jersey Giants? How do they sell lanky Orpingtons that are far from the classic round shape? How do they sell single combed birds are Wyandottes?
That's how hatcheries are. The Rhode Island Red is just one example. It is very, very rare to get a good specimen of a breed from a hatchery. They pay enough attention to looks to make sure that the birds somewhat resemble the breed it's supposed to be. They do not try to meet the breed standard, though.
If all you're after is some hens that will lay lots of eggs, than hatchery birds are the way to go. If you want to breed birds for show, you do not source your stock from hatcheries. You go to breeders with a long standing reputation.
And since this thread is in the Exhibition, Genetics, & Breeding to Standard section, the differences in hatchery vs. show quality is what is being discussed.
As I previously said, there is more to the Rhode Island Red breed than just the color. There is a host of nuanced traits that most beginners or casual owners will never notice, from the tail set to the spread of the chest, to length of shank. The standards cover every aspect of the bird. You may not see the differences, but to someone who knows what Rhode Island Reds should look like, the faults in Production Reds are glaringly obvious.