RIR girls????

[cafrhe]

So after reading the comments recently posted pointing out that these are 'production' rirs, I perused the RIR threads to get a better understanding of the description....I am very new to chickens/breeding/genetics and standards.....But I am not new to the schism between 'show line' breedings and 'working' breedings. I have german shepherd dogs--Working line gsds and there is an enormous difference between show line and working lines. In fact there are at least 3 different types of gsds--German working line, German show line, American show line (not to mention white). My working gsds would be laughed out of the show ring, but they fully meet the original purpose of the breed--structure and temperament that allows them to work all day and be a herder, protector, utility dog and family companion.

After reading through a lot of the RIR threads, I noted that the language was almost entirely geared towards the appearance of the bird rather than the egg laying capabilities (unless of course, I didnt read far enough). How much consideration is given to the egg laying for the heritage/proper RIRs? Are there breeders trying to maintain both appearance and production?

My understanding of the breed it that is was supposed to be a dual purpose, excellent layer of eggs plus large enough to provide meat.

 

[cafrhe]

Ok...found the production red vs RIR thread...good info.

 

[Michael OShay]

The poultry governing bodies are only concerned with the appearance and temperament of the recognized breeds (whether these meet their specific standards). A RIR hen could theoretically be a prize winning show bird and yet be a very poor layer. This is typically not the case as the same qualities that have gone into the appearance of RIRs have also continued to produce the good laying characteristics that were first bred into the birds. However, pure RIRs cannot compete with the lay rate of the lest layers in the chicken world (White Leghorns, sex links, Australorps, etc.), so in order to increase the lay rate of the RIRs, other birds were crossed with them (Leghorns, NHs), and then these were recrossed back with RIRs in order to maintain the red genetics. Thus was born the Production Red. Which is the better bird, RIR, or Production Red, depends on what you want in a chicken. If you want to maintain the excellent physical characteristics of the Rhode Island Red (dark mahogany color, black tail feathering, yellow legs and skin, deep body, etc.) or preserve it as a heritage breed, then I would suggest getting RIRs from a good, reliable breeder (there is very little difference between many hatchery quality RIRs and Production Reds). However, if egg production is your main priority (along with a decent amount of meat) then the Production Reds (like yours) are the best way to go. They will not be any good for showing, but they will give you loads of large, brown eggs.

 

[krista74]

For interest's sake, here is a picture of one of my RIR girls. She has the deep mahogany colour, and although you can't see it in these pictures, she also has the black tail tips, yellow legs and deep body shape. Interestingly, when I crossed her with my BO rooster, the chicks came out looking exactly like their Daddy, but for the black tail tips!



I am very lucky in that all but one of my RIR girls are excellent layers (when they are not raising chicks), usually giving me 6 eggs per week each. The one who does not lay has only been with my flock for 3 months and has not laid in that time, but I suspect she is considerably older than the "2 years" I was advised when I purchased her

The one thing I did not expect from the breed is the consistent broodiness. At one time or other over the past 4 months, this has been a very common sight in my chicken run:



But I digress.....YOUR girls look like they will provide you with lots of lovely eggs, and when the times comes that they cease laying, will make excellent table birds as well (if that is your intention.)

My best wishes to you,

- Krista

 

[Michael OShay]

The one thing I did not expect from the breed is the consistent broodiness.

I'm glad you mentioned the broodiness as it is another difference between pure RIRs and Production Reds. Pure RIRs will go broody fairly frequently and make excellent mothers, but broody hens stop laying, so in the Production Reds, they broodiness has been bred out of them to increase lay rate (likely the infusion of Leghorn in the past has been mainly responsible for that). Production Reds rarely go broody.

 

[krista74]

I agree with you 100%. I have hatched two successful batches of chicks from my RIR this year, and the Momma Hens were fantastic. They were both very attentive to their chicks, but once they hit the 5 to 6 week old mark that was it - "I don't want to be a Momma anymore!" They were both removed from the chick pen at this point and resumed laying within two days which was wonderful.

Not so wonderful was the return to broody behaviour shortly thereafter! All up, out of my six RIR girls FIVE have been broody at least once this season, and several have been broody two or three times each! The only one which hasn't gone broody is the non-laying hen. She is the last of the breeding stock from the breeder I purchased 3 of my girls from, and spends her day sitting beside the chick pen watching over the babies! The "babies," mind you, are now 12 weeks old and probably don't require close supervision anymore, but who am I to tell her that?!

When they do lay, they are fantastic at it. XL (76g+), beautiful brown eggs every day with the exception of their one day off per week. To be honest I would have liked them to be more consistent in the egg-laying department and less insistent at going broody, but we all have our crosses to bare! They are lovely birds to own, and if there is one silver lining, the Momma hens are not aggressive at all. Unlike my BO's who would take your arm off for going near their chicks!

- Krista

 

[ThePRfan]

You do have very pretty birds.
I'll never understand why I crave a Production red,maybe because their attitude?
When I purchased lil red,she was scared to death,of course she was only 4 days old,lol

 

[cafrhe]

Thanks for the conversation! Lots of good info. I have a childhood love of RIRs. One of those visceral things. I am sure the hens we had were not fancy or heritage. Probably production hens.

From what I read, the production rir are genetically RIRs, just a variation selected for production rather than size and color. That works for me. Like I said, my dogs would be considered ugly and most definitely built wrong by some in the show field, but they work their legs off! I appreciate balanced utility animals. I will get some more I am sure and will probably look for a breeder who breeds a little more towards the production side.

I also have 3 red star hens and wont get any more even though they are fantastic egg layers. Their eggs are too big, and they are too small. I worry about their health. They did put weight on after we got them--they have adapted well to free ranging--except all 3 got bumble foot at the beginning of the winter. I take that as weakness. We have 9 of their eggs with the barred rock roo in the incubator and look forward to seeing what we get.

I got my 3 from a breeder in NJ. I have no idea where they got their original stock from. No sign of broodiness...but one of my BOs went broody and did a fantastic mommy job.

Attitude wise--they are a bit bossy, but man, when the Red Stars came in, one schooled everyone! She kicked the lead RIR's butt and everyone else backed off. My rirs are not mean at all, but not friendly either.

 

[ThePRfan]

Never will understand why people call them "production"rirs.
They are bred with RIR and newhampshire red,as far as um concerned,they are 2 different breeds.
Although,I dont particularly think the PR is a breed really...

 

[ThePRfan]

Red stars in all those others,are just other names for a red sexlink,research etc really helps learn more(duh).
I am still reading...