RIR with Diarrhea, Pasty Vent, Lethargic, Distended belly, No appetite, etc.....HELP?

[RachaelLJ]

1) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.)
RIR, got her about a month ago along with 5 others, seller purchased as chicks from reputable hatchery, told us they were all about 4.5 mos. old so they are about 5.5 mos. now. This particular bird, since we got her, has felt heavier than the others. We actually thought she might be older, that maybe my husband loaded up an older girl on accident >.< because her comb was not the deep red of the others when we got home and she does not appear to have been laying. Also was already molting when the others weren't. So we thought she was older than the others because of all that but now I'm not so sure she hasn't been slowly getting sick since we got her....I have never really been able to check this bird over extensively because of her aggressive nature and she never would let you handle her/was very hard to catch.

2) What is the behavior, exactly.
She has also been more aggressive than the others (we call her "mean girl"), but is now lethargic. 2 nights ago she wasn't in the coop when it was time to close the girls up for the night (They free range all day) so we looked everywhere for her but it got dark. We thought perhaps something had gotten her (we are near a woodline) because she is slowest of the birds (I had particularly noticed her acting sluggish earlier that day, and was keeping my eye on her). So we thought she was a goner, but she showed up at the barn (where they hang out during the hottest part of the day, we are nearing end of summer here but in southeastern AL, still very hot). When we saw her there I went to check her over and was really relieved to see her but noticed before I reached her that she looked big and was waddling, having trouble moving around. I checked over for wounds first, nothing. As I thought she was very bloated, belly distended and feels like a taught water balloon. She had pasty vent with hardened poo covering the vent (which had never happened before) so I immediately soaked her bottom in an epsom salt bath and then put canola oil on the vent area to keep poo from sticking again. I have been aware of her having mild diarrhea pretty much since we got her, just watery at first, then greenish. Now white and watery. She is hardly eliminating at all. I gave her (last night) some oatmeal with yogurt and boiled egg, as well as a good dose of cayenne pepper to scare out any worms if she had them. I guess she maybe hasn't pooped enough for me to really know? But I haven't seen any worms. Haven't wormed the birds yet, either. Husband wanted to take preventative measures (garlic, cayenne pepper, etc.) and see how that went before worming preemptively. This is our first time owning chickens, but I did work on an organic farm for 2 years where they kept them so I learned a bit. Also gave her an epsom salt/water solution in a dropper last night to help things move along digestive wise, seems to have helped only a little. Also fed her a mix of yogurt, boiled egg/shell, oatmeal. Gave the same epsom solution again this morning as well as the oatmeal mix, but this time she hasn't eaten it. She stayed inside in a dog crate for the night and is still inside now. So anyway...total list of symptoms...pretty much in the order they appeared

diarrhea (early on)
pasty vent & red around it, missing some feathers
not perching
difficulty walking/standing
discoloration of comb (it is now a purplish color and cold to the touch - poor circulation, probably due to whatever is bloating her?)
very bloated/distended belly, feels like a water balloon
lethargic
closing eyes
head down
feathers fluffed up
not eating/drinking
a little difficulty breathing now
feet sort of curled under her

she will rouse up/stand if I come to check on her.

3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?
see above

4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms?
none

5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
no

6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
My stubborn mother in law who lives next to us has been putting out scraps that aren't good for the birds. I have been picking them up and getting rid of as I can, but it's been difficult (stay at home mom with 9 month old, LOL) but we have asked her to please not put anything out for them since she won't stick to the things that they can eat. She has put out rotten food, salty food (chips, crackers, etc.) potatoes (raw with skins, rotting) among other things. It is very possible Mean Girl has eaten this stuff.

7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.
see above for eating + layers pellets and SAFE scraps, I have notice she hasn't been scratching around for bugs so much as the other birds, again thought this might be due to her being "older." They drink water (I keep clean water out for them and add a small amount of vinegar to it to keep anything form growing in it + whatever rain water collected they can find).

8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
Now looks runny/white. Have not seen blood in it before, but as they free range, it would be hard to know.

9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
Epsom salt bath, Epsom salt oral solution, yogurt/oatmeal/egg to help with digestion. Isolating indoors.

10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
There are no vets around here who specialize in birds. The vets we have here aren't really willing to even help with birds. I had trouble even getting a suggestion from them about how much cephalexin to administer a couple weeks ago when 2 of our chickens had a run in with a dog. They said they couldn't help with that because they don't do poultry. So we're kind of on our own.

11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.
Can post pics if needed, have none now.

12) Describe the housing/bedding in use
Small coop about 1' off ground, chicken wire floor, stays clean (especially because they are only in it at night) bedding in nesting boxes is dry straw. While free ranging, they mainly stick around the barn. We don't put out poison or have it lying around. There was some old motor oil spilled on the ground in the barn, we covered it well with sand before getting chickens. Also a large metal cabinet of hazardous fluids in the barn, but the hens can't access it. Everything is bottled up, i.e. gasoline cans, diesel, coolant, etc.


Any help greatly appreciated. We are trying to go as naturally as possible but are willing to do what is necessary. As stated, we have no vet help plus we are new chicken owners. Thanks.

 

[RachaelLJ]

UPDATE:
I talked to a friend who has kept chickens for years, and she said to isolate her (done) and kill her and bury her. She said it might be a virus that could spread to the rest of the flock (I am 99% sure the rest of them have already eaten/drank after the sick one though). However, all the reading I've been doing yesterday/today about her symptoms have not seemed to suggest culling right away...I know how to cull a chicken but I of course don't want to not feeling pretty certain it's necessary.

As far as the other 5 chickens no symptoms, none seem to have runny pooh or anything. However, one of them is acting a little out of character. I am wondering whether or not it could be related. I'm thinking it's not but here's a short description just to be on the safe side...

As I mentioned in the original post message, 2 of our chickens got in a tangle with a dog 3 weeks ago (actually it was just a little puppy. he wasn't trying to kill them but thought they were fun toys.) They had most back feathers gone and some skin/flesh torn off so I brought them in and administered low dose cephalexin for 7 days. They have healed up great and have been having free range time in the evening. They were put back outside yesterday (outside for good, sleeping in the coop again). However, one of them in particular has begun to think that our house is her coop. She will try to get inside if the door is open (has been doing this for about a week, even before back in the coop last night) and today she has been hanging around the house constantly. I had to put a waterer up here for her because she insists on laying in the weeds around our house, but it's not very shady and it's really hot out. Yesterday morning when she was still in the dog crate inside, she pooped out some organ looking thing. I have read this can be normal and she was acting herself, so I didn't worry. It looked about 6" long, kind of like an intestine part, was about as big around as my finger, but smaller in some places, and was opened up a bit to reveal some roughage and grass among other grains. This morning she also flew up and perched on my head (!) while I was hanging out clothes. Then she perched on the clothesline, then on top of the car. She's in the weeds around our house now. I thought it was almost as though she were acting broody, but she (as well as the other injured chicken) have not been laying since after a couple days of being inside. I figured this was due to being in shock form the attack, healing, new environment, and change in diet. They have both been laying soft shell or no shell eggs over the past few days though, since I have been free ranging them in the evenings. I expect their laying/eggs to get back to normal now that they're back outside. (I waited the full 2 weeks after last antibiotic dosage to put them out, gave them time to heal and we don't have to worry about not eating any eggs out there.)

So what do you think? The organ pooped out sounds like nothing to worry about, maybe she's hanging around the house because it's what she's been used to the past couple of weeks? Could this all have to do with our sick girl? Input appreciated.

 

[TwoCrows]

Usually a bloated abdomen can be a sign of egg laying issues...internal laying, peritonitis, etc...But your girl seems to young for that. But because she had a pasty butt, it is possible she has developed some internal infection, like e-coli or something similar. I would get her started on antibiotics right a way. Any of the Tetracyclines will work well. If you have any Duramycin on hand, I would go ahead and get her going on it. I would also keep her separated for the rest of the day in a dry area or cage so she can rest a bit. Feed her only soft foods like hard boiled eggs or oatmeal. Maybe some grits. Nothing too hard to digest. Then after a day or so you can start her back with damp layer feed. Don't feed any hard foods for a while. I would also suggest worming her, but after you get passed this critical point. She could very well be loaded with worms.

 

[TwoCrows]

You were typing out your second post as I typed on mine. Unless you get a vet to diagnose her, I would avoid the "killing and burying". You might want to isolate her and see if antibiotics will take care of it first. If you don't see any improvements after a week on antibiotics, then you may have some virus. It is worth a try to save her, but it is entirely up to you.

 

[RachaelLJ]

Thanks twocrowsranch. I thought the friend's instant suggestion of culling was kind of knee-jerk reaction. Unfortunately we're not well stocked on antibiotics yet and the cephalexin is all we have available. I might can get a prescription before the day's out but I doubt it. That would put me Monday at soonest getting her started on something else. She has looked different from the other birds since we got her, and I thought she just looked like an old, out of lay bird. But perhaps she was sick already when we got her

I am trying to feed her soft foods, but she isn't taking any of it. I also put salt/sugar in her waterer so that the little but she does drink will give her extra electrolytes but she also seems to be hardly drinking at all.

One other thing the friend did say was that, if she has a virus/disease, and gets over it, she could still be a carrier and we wouldn't want to eat her eggs or her meat. The meat I had heard caution of for a bird who's had something funky in it's lifetime, but the eggs I hadn't. I'm just wondering if this is the case, she wouldn't be of much use to us then. This has been some wild month

Thanks for the help and I'll see what I can do about antibiotics.

Any suggestions for a good broad spectrum wormer, should we decide to go that route later on?

 

[TwoCrows]

Most bacteria's and virus's are not transferable from chicken to human and visa versa. There is a technical term for this, but it generally does not happen. So if she does recuperate, you can still eat her eggs or her, if you desired.

As far as the Cephalexin...it might work also in this case as it does get into soft tissue well. So if I were you, I would start her on it ASAP and in the mean time, order some other antibiotics. If the Ceph is working, you can keep her on it, or switch to another antibiotic later. Ceph works on most gram positive and gram negative bacteria and would definitely help in this case. It is not as broad spectrum as the Duramycin, but since you have the Ceph, start her on it. One, 250mg capsule, 2 times daily. You can mix it with baby food, about 3cc's and shoot it down the throat. It is thick enough not to gag her on it. This will also give her some calories.

As far as being a carrier....no doubt all your birds have come into contact with what ever she has. So it is too late to worry over that. You will see in the future how the others fare with what ever this hen has.

 

[Fred's Hens]

My guess, just from some of the descriptors, is that she may be suffering from reproductive issues. If this is the case, this rarely ends well. Ascites, egg bound, ovarian cancer, fluid build up, etc. It's all really tough stuff. Lost one this spring. Really sad.

These issues are somewhat common among top laying strains, unfortunately. I knew my bird was not diseased, because we operate a closed flock. I soaked her in warm water a couple of times, but these things rarely work and only provide a moment or two of comfort and relaxation to the bird. Yes, I put her down and buried her. She had suffered enough. When and if that time comes, I know you will do the same thing. See what you can do for, but if she doesn't respond soon, you'll know.

 

[RachaelLJ]

Thanks to both of you. It's good to be reassured about the bacteria/virus transferability. Our Ceph is 500 mg capsules but I will open them and divide as I did before for the 2 injured birds. We don't have baby food, but we do have yogurt so I will mix with that.

I just went to check on her and she is a little more alert but is now "leaking" whitish liquid (not thick/pussy but clearish white and thin) from her vent. It's a steady drip. My plan is to just try to Ceph for a week to see how she does and if she's not better I'll probably just go ahead and end her suffering. I can tell that she's in a lot of pain. You can give a chicken aspirin, right? I'm just not sure about the dosage or if I should administer it in this particular case. I would love her to get some pain relief though.

 

[TwoCrows]

Yes on the asprin. 1/2 a baby asprin twice daily. Sounds like you have a plan there. Good luck with your baby. I know how difficult it is to watch them suffer.

 

[RachaelLJ]

I have to make more yogurt haha...she took 250mg with milk but still hasn't eaten. About the aspirin, we only have some really old halfprin (adult low strength aspirin) in some odd amount, 81mg tablets I think. But we have acetomenophin, ibuprofen, and tylenol, though I'm not sure about giving any of those to chickens. Maybe I'll figure out the dosage for the Halfprin and see if it works, even though it probably expired years ago *rolls eyes* We don't take meds ever, so we don't have a good stock of them.

I'll let this topic rest a bit, but welcome anyone else's suggestions in the meantime. Will update when anything changes, or if I need more input.

Thanks so much.