RIR's and New Hampshire Reds?

[Chris09]

A.T. Hagan,
The thing is there is more than one way for my bird to pay for there feed.
Remember "heritage" eggs [eating and hatching] , meat, chicks, breeders and layer have and will bring a better price than "standard" fowl [example; production breeds and hybrids].

Chris

 

[spartacus_63]

Remember "heritage" eggs [eating and hatching] , meat, chicks, breeders and layer have and will bring a better price than "standard" fowl [example; production breeds and hybrids].

I'm not sure how your "heritage"eggs (eating) or meat (also eating) will bring a better price at market than mine. Unless you are selling at a show, at which point the dues and costs will offset any advantage you gain. No doubt a respected breeder with good stock will get a better price for a champion line of chicks, but that was not the topic. We have yet again digressed to the debate between blood lines vs. practical.​

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
I'm not sure how your "heritage"eggs (eating) or meat (also eating) will bring a better price at market than mine. Unless you are selling at a show, at which point the dues and costs will offset any advantage you gain. No doubt a respected breeder with good stock will get a better price for a champion line of chicks, but that was not the topic. We have yet again digressed to the debate between blood lines vs. practical.

The word "heritage".
People are starting to get away from the whole "production" farm and breeds when buying there food, so they will pay a little more for it.
The one local market cant keep anything marketed as "heritage" in stock.

When it comes to food more and more people are looking for one of or all three words on the package and will pay more for it.
"heritage", "free range", and "organic".

Chris

 

[spartacus_63]

When it comes to food people love to see three things on the package and will pay more for it.
"heritage", "free range", and "organic".

Yes but I could label mine as heritage or free range since my birds meet the qualifications for both, so there would be no advantage, unless your birds are organic, and if they are organic, again there is the higher cost of registration and feed.​

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Yes but I could label mine as heritage or free range since my birds meet the qualifications for both, so there would be no advantage, unless your birds are organic, and if they are organic, again there is the higher cost of registration and feed.

If your birds can meet the definition of heritage fowl set by ALBC then yes you cold market them as heritage.

Definition:
Heritage Chicken must adhere to all the following:
1. APA Standard Breed. Heritage Chicken must be from parent and grandparent stock of breeds recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) prior to the mid-20th century; whose genetic line can be traced back multiple generations; and with traits that meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed. Heritage Chicken must be produced and sired by an APA Standard breed. Heritage eggs must be laid by an APA Standard breed.
2. Naturally mating. Heritage Chicken must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating. Chickens marketed as Heritage must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.
3. Long, productive outdoor lifespan. Heritage Chicken must have the genetic ability to live a long, vigorous life and thrive in the rigors of pasture-based, outdoor production systems. Breeding hens should be productive for 5-7 years and roosters for 3-5 years.
4. Slow growth rate. Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass.
Chickens marketed as Heritage must include the variety and breed name on the label.
Terms like “heirloom,” “antique,” “old-fashioned,” and “old timey” imply Heritage and are understood to be synonymous with the definition provided here.
Abbreviated Definition: A Heritage Egg can only be produced by an American Poultry Association Standard breed. A Heritage Chicken is hatched from a heritage egg sired by an American Poultry Association Standard breed established prior to the mid-20th century, is slow growing, naturally mated with a long productive outdoor life.

http://albc-usa.org/heritagechicken/definition.html

Chris

 

[spartacus_63]

1. APA Standard Breed. Heritage Chicken must be from parent and grandparent stock of breeds recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) prior to the mid-20th century; whose genetic line can be traced back multiple generations; and with traits that meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed. Heritage Chicken must be produced and sired by an APA Standard breed. Heritage eggs must be laid by an APA Standard breed.

RIR is an APA standard breed and they were bred from RIR who were bred from RIR. And I believe the RIR genetic line can be traced back several generations. My birds definately meet the APA SOP guidelines. My birds are definately produced and sired by an APA standard breed and my eggs come from my chickens.

2. Naturally mating. Heritage Chicken must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating. Chickens marketed as Heritage must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.

My birds definately don't need my help on this one.

3. Long, productive outdoor lifespan. Heritage Chicken must have the genetic ability to live a long, vigorous life and thrive in the rigors of pasture-based, outdoor production systems. Breeding hens should be productive for 5-7 years and roosters for 3-5 years.

My birds definitely have the genetic ability for a long and vigorous life

4. Slow growth rate. Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass.
Chickens marketed as Heritage must include the variety and breed name on the label.
Terms like “heirloom,” “antique,” “old-fashioned,” and “old timey” imply Heritage and are understood to be synonymous with the definition provided here.
Abbreviated Definition: A Heritage Egg can only be produced by an American Poultry Association Standard breed. A Heritage Chicken is hatched from a heritage egg sired by an American Poultry Association Standard breed established prior to the mid-20th century, is slow growing, naturally mated with a long productive outdoor life.

It certainly took my birds longer than 16 weeks to reach market weight.

Yep, they meet all them rules, and the definitely free range. But I don't label my birds or eggs as organic, even though I have never met a non organic chicken, or egg.​

 

[crash0330]

A.T. Hagan :

Quote:
If I were not interested in anything but eggs I would have nothing but sex-links and Mediterranean breeds and in fact I do have many of both. But the issue here is dual-purpose birds and the breeds that were once of historical importance notably the Rhode Island Red and New Hampshire. At their height as commercial working birds they laid 200-250 eggs per year in their pullet years AND grew large enough to make a good meat bird (by the standards of the day). The strains they eventually got to 300+ eggs per year were a little small relative to their slightly less prolific cousins but still grew larger than the Mediterranean breeds for the broiler market. There is no reason why they cannot do this again when focus is again put on their practical qualities rather than their cosmetic ones. It's what they were originally bred for by the hundreds of thousands and millions of birds that built the America poultry industry. THOSE were the genuine heritage birds.

Agree 100% with you, people are always complaining about the hatcheries putting out "inferior" birds to the "pure" ones from breeders, but like Hagan said hatchery birds are breed more towards egg laying while the ones from a breeder tend to be breed to meet the Standards, but just in color and apperance tho, so if you really think about it there both the same breed with 2 different approches but at the end of the day there both not close to be the so called "pure" breed it once was.​

 

[A.T. Hagan]

Quote:
Well, this is true. People get certain ideas into their heads about particular words and they'll pay more money for those things labeled with those words whether or not they really mean anything. At least until they wise up anyway. "Free range" for example. My customers don't insist on heritage anything. They have other concerns but they still pay me three dollars a dozen for grass raised eggs. If I were closer to Orlando I could probably get four to five dollars a dozen, but this is not an affluent area. For the live birds I sell they are looking for working birds, not beauty queens. If I were to sell them chicks that were going to take eight months to a year to start laying I'd never sell them another bird again after they realized what they'd bought.

"Heritage" needs to mean something real. This is where the ALBC went wrong by the wholesale adoption of APA standards without putting equal emphasis practical qualities.

 

[spartacus_63]

I do find it interesting that breeders throughout history have warned about breeding along faddish traits, yet marketers boast of taking advantage of every fad.

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
RIR is an APA standard breed and they were bred from RIR who were bred from RIR. And I believe the RIR genetic line can be traced back several generations. My birds definately meet the APA SOP guidelines. My birds are definately produced and sired by an APA standard breed and my eggs come from my chickens.

2. Naturally mating. Heritage Chicken must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating. Chickens marketed as Heritage must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.

My birds definately don't need my help on this one.

3. Long, productive outdoor lifespan. Heritage Chicken must have the genetic ability to live a long, vigorous life and thrive in the rigors of pasture-based, outdoor production systems. Breeding hens should be productive for 5-7 years and roosters for 3-5 years.

My birds definitely have the genetic ability for a long and vigorous life

4. Slow growth rate. Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass.
Chickens marketed as Heritage must include the variety and breed name on the label.
Terms like “heirloom,” “antique,” “old-fashioned,” and “old timey” imply Heritage and are understood to be synonymous with the definition provided here.
Abbreviated Definition: A Heritage Egg can only be produced by an American Poultry Association Standard breed. A Heritage Chicken is hatched from a heritage egg sired by an American Poultry Association Standard breed established prior to the mid-20th century, is slow growing, naturally mated with a long productive outdoor life.

It certainly took my birds longer than 16 weeks to reach market weight.

Yep, they meet all them rules, and the definitely free range. But I don't label my birds or eggs as organic, even though I have never met a non organic chicken, or egg.​

your birds are production birds not the real true Rhode Island Red. no hatchery that i know of has real RIR. the they are two diffrent breeds production birds from hatcheries and pure old line bred birds.​