RIR's and New Hampshire Reds?

[Chris09]

If I start hatching out Exhibition Reds around February or March those pullets wont start laying till November /December [if I am lucky and weather permitting] but most of the time they will start laying spring of the flowing year.
The line of Red I am working on [breeding] are very slow maturing and growing but are large in body size.
Like most of the breeders I have talked said, I prefer a slow maturing and growing Red because it gives the fowl time to fill out and build muscle on there frame. Once a pullet hits maturity and starts to lay eggs she is for the most part done growing and she is as big as she is going to get.

Chris

 

[A.T. Hagan]

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Which is fine for a show bird if that's what you want. No one in their right mind would want that sort of bird for any practical use. Eight months to a year before they begin to lay. They'd run you broke.

Show is show and working birds are working birds and seldom shall the twain ever meet.

 

[Illia]

Curious then, if you're so adamant about egg production. . . . Where are you going to get your meat?

High producting Reds do not give much meat at all. . . And that's what Reds were originally for - Dual Purpose. Not egg production, but egg AND meat. Thus, one still needs a slow grower.

When one has a dual purpose flock, they're not feeding the US, so they don't need some fat bird that will be severly overweight at 2 months of age. They can wait. And in time they'll get just what they want. Also, even if you do want a really fast growing meaty bird, you're going to sacrifice egg production.

"Show" birds don't always lay as little as people who love production birds claim they do. . .

And still, putting showing aside, heritage type Reds and New Hampshires are not what production birds look like. They need the slow growth and meat. . . Regardless if someone is showing or not. I don't think Gary Ramey shows his birds or breeds to be the perfect Rhode Island Red to the SOP, but his birds fit the heritage image of a dual purpose breed.

To me, if someone wants a high producing bird, a Rhode Island Red or New Hampshire is not the way to go. They're supposed to be dual purpose breeds. (regardless of "show quality" or not) As I've said in another thread before - If you want egg production, get a Mediterranean breed. Or a Sex-Link.

 

[Chris09]

A.T. Hagan :

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Which is fine for a show bird if that's what you want. No one in their right mind would want that sort of bird for any practical use. Eight months to a year before they begin to lay. They'd run you broke.

Show is show and working birds are working birds and seldom shall the twain ever meet.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is although my Red's take longer to lay they will lay more consecutive and longer than a hatchery type breed or Rhode Island Red [production red] and when you are spending money replacing 3 year layers because there production is down I will be still receiving the same good amount of eggs from my 3 year layers.

But then this reminds me of that old saying, "Slow And Steady Wins The Race"
Wile your "production" reds may start out with a bang I would be willing to bet that after 3-4 years [of laying] there production has slowed down a lot if not stoped and my Reds will be laying the same at 3-4 years [of laying] as they did as 1 year layers.

Now if you want a quick maturing fowl that will lay like there is no tomorrow and way into there prime then I would sagest a the American Gamefowl.
They will out lay any production breed that the hatcheries can put out and lay well into there prime.

Chris​

 

[Illia]

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Very well said.

 

[Chris09]

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[Chris09]

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Very well said.

Thank you.

Chris

 

[A.T. Hagan]

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A 300+ egg a year bird isn't going to make a big stewing hen to be sure. A 200-250 egg a year bird certainly can and those used to be the backbone of the poultry industry. When they weren't good for laying any longer they became stewing hens. The cockerels were the fryers of their day. A bird that can't make 200 eggs a year will run you broke. They aren't dual-purpose either.

 

[A.T. Hagan]

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Are your three year layers actually paying for their feed in the egg sold? What marvelous birds they must be. There have always been a few birds that could lay well enough to make it into their third laying season and still make their feed costs. Everyone conserved those as breeders for obvious reasons. But the industry still culled out all but those very few year after year, decade after decade, even with using them as breeders and the best minds in the poultry business breeding them. Even before the fracas over forced molting started it wasn't worth the expense of keeping birds through their third laying season except for those very few used as breeders. As always they reach the point where the eggs in the basket they produce can no longer be sold for enough to pay for the feed they need to eat to produce them.

But then this reminds me of that old saying, "Slow And Steady Wins The Race" Wile your "production" reds may start out with a bang I would be willing to bet that after 3-4 years [of laying] there production has slowed down a lot if not stoped and my Reds will be laying the same at 3-4 years [of laying] as they did as 1 year layers.

It's funny that you should bring that particular saying up as it's one that I just discussed with my youngest child when she saw it in some film or other. "Slow and steady" has never won any race except for those where the opponent laid down to take a nap during the event. Fast and steady can, consistent sometimes can, slow and steady definitely not. The feed bill does not care. It has to be paid and if you want to say in business it has to be paid for with the money brought in from selling those eggs. When the bird can no longer produce enough eggs to at the very least pay for the feed it's time to go. If you have birds who can consistently lay enough eggs to more than pay for their feed in their third year of laying the entire global poultry industry would like to hear from you because somehow none of them have managed it. A few birds, yes. A lot of birds, no. Not even when using the ones who could as breeding stock.

Now if you want a quick maturing fowl that will lay like there is no tomorrow and way into there prime then I would sagest a the American Gamefowl.
They will out lay any production breed that the hatcheries can put out and lay well into there prime.

Chris

You are quite right. This is why American Gamefowl were so widely used as production birds.​

 

[OkChickens]

My RIR's are not as dark as SnowHunters but they are not like as light as hatcheries RIR's. They are about 4-5 months old. When should I start seeing eggs? I was told by the guy I bought them from about 25-30 weeks.