Rookie Move: Brought home sick chickens

[Gizabelle]

Hi everyone,

So I'm new to the forum, but have been using it as a resource since I brought home our first chicks almost two years ago.

I found myself with only one chicken earlier this month. We've had a free ranging RIR and turkey pair that have done splendidly for the past year. They were all that was left of our original 6 hatchery chicks and 2 turkey pullets. Problems with neighborhood dogs claimed most of our flock in the first 6 months, but we resolved that and hadn't had a problem in over a year. Well, we lost our turkey hen Moe to a terrible accident earlier this month and I was really worried about Red, our poor lonesome hen. So I went out and got two new chickens. Good intentions, amiright?

They were sold to me by a "good ole boy" type as "first year layers" not yet laying. A (mutt) barred rock and buff orphington. The BO looks much younger. I knew the sellers set-up was FAR from ideal, and his birds didn't look as healthy as mine but as it felt like one of those too-late-to-back-out moments I just went with it. BIG MISTAKE.
Well, got them home and had a good look at them, and things were much worse than I thought.

I got them into a quarantine/recovery coop with pine shavings, and have done my best to keep it as clean as possible.

First Night:
BR: Underweight, pale comb, horrible diarrhea
BO: Severely underweight, pale (really suspicious looking) comb, diarrhea, sneezing, raspy breathing. Found her lying on her side on the floor of the coop. Didn't think she'd make it through the night.

Next Day:
Somehow BO pulled through. Got them started on electrolytes, served up some yogurt. Standard layer pellets (thats what I had)
Ran to my local feed store and hit up "chicken lady" for advice. She recommended steps already taken plus treat for coccidia.

Next 5 days:
Gave them 5 day run of Corid. (10 ml/gal of 9.6% liquid) Diarrhea improved for BO, but no change to BR (still horrible smelly diarrhea that seemed to have even gotten worse) My next thought was intestinal parasites...

Then:
Fenbendazole 3 day run. (3ml/gal of 10% suspension liquid goat wormer)

Finally saw a normal poop!! Presumably from BO (now called Daisy)
BR (now called Nay Nay) still has awful smelly diarrhea.
I learn about Gleet!

Next Day:
Nay Nay gets her first "spa day" warm soak of the bum for about 15 minutes. (Half wild bird, did NOT appreciate my efforts) Got a closer look at vent afterwards... OMG what a mess! Yellowish membrane looking substance surrounding vent opening. Tried to remove what I could. No open sores, so I applied anti-fungal topical (Nystatin) as per feed store lady recommendation.

A few days later:
Nay Nay still straining to poop, only managing runny diarrhea, but smell has improved. Now using probiotic supplements in water. Second spa day goes better (I think she's starting to trust me) Vent improved but still looks rough. Noted small pucker/bulge directly above vent, worried about some sort of internal blockage. Reapplied anti-fungal and trimmed butt-fluff.

Starting to worry that I'm doing more harm than good keeping them confined so I move them to the big coop and run. Outdoor run is about 180sqft and I think its doing them good to be able to move around in the fresh air. After move Daisy's respiratory issues seem to get worse again, but she still looks/sounds much better than day 1.

So that brings us up to present:
They have been in the big coop/run since yesterday. Still very sluggish, but taking dust baths and doing some unenthusiastic scratching/ foraging. Eating and drinking ok.

My healthy hen is still separated from them, but the "quarantine" is far from air tight. I guess I figure were kind of "all in" at this point, and if she gets sick too then we'll just deal with that also.

(BTW, Thank you to anyone who has read this far)

I'm attaching some pics from today. I still don't know exactly what to look for as far as signs of other problems, so if anything jumps out please let me know.
Really worried about the state of Daisy's comb. Nay Nay doesn't have any lesions on hers, and since they have been in such close quarters for a month, I hope that means its old pecking injury/poor health and not fowl pox. The color has much improved since day 1, really wish I had taken pics then.
Anyways, here are some pics of Daisy and her suspicious comb and one of Nay Nay looking much better after her second spa day:

Any observations or thoughts on where I should go from here would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you!!

 

[Cragg Klefor]

Hi Gizabelle

Sounds like those two girls were very lucky you came along when you did. I can't see them still being alive if the had remained in their previous situation.

First thing I would look at now with them is their crop function. Are you used to checking crops? They should be full in the evening (if the chicken is eating) and empty in the morning. I was thinking this as I read your post, and then with the picture of Daisy her crop looks a little distended especially for a chicken that isn't really eating. Here is a really good article on crop issues and knowing what you are looking for/at. Perhaps give it a read and compare?
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...d-sour-crops-prevention-and-treatments.67194/

The crop malfunctioning can cause all sorts of problems for chickens so it's extremely important that the crop is functioning properly.

The crop however, does not explain the respiratory problems. That is a whole other problem which other people here have far more experience in than I, but here is another great read on respiratory diseases and it makes a real difference which one you have so it'd be good to name it:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

Daisy's comb injuries look like peck marks to me, but again, others could see something I am not seeing.

I hope you get these girls as healthy as they can be without too much hassle, best of luck!

I should have included: Check them over well for lice and mites!! Considering the condition they were in when you got them I would be surprised if they were free of them.
Lice/Mites can cause pale combs, lethargy, loose stools, loss of appetite.

 

[Gizabelle]

Thanks for the reply Cragg. (And the links!)

Crop function was something that was not really on my radar. I checked Daisy yesterday afternoon and it really felt like there wasn't a whole lot in there. She's still not roosting on a perch (nesting in a little hay box I've provided for her instead) and her little night poops are pretty minimal. Any ideas on jump starting her appetite?

I was considering starting them on ACV but wasn't sure about overloading them on water additives. They've been on a three day run of water administered probiotics. Should I continue with those or switch it up to ACV for a while?

The article on respiratory issues is scary... I think I've actually read through that one before. I guess I'm just at a wait-and-see point with her at the moment as the only symptoms I'm seeing are intermittent sneezing and poor body condition/appetite.
Thankfully her "sick mate" isn't sneezing, so I'm just putting that one on the back burner for now.

Nay Nay is still has yucky runny poops, but she's staying cleaner and I think the consistency is improving. (the smell certainly has!) How long does it usually take for Gleet to clear up?

As for the creepy crawlies...
Yes, I've been wondering how to tackle that one too. I didn't see anything obvious while doing the vent checks on Nay Nay, but she was wet at the time (right after a soak) and I don't have an eye for these things yet. I've also been trying not to handle them any more than I have to to keep stress levels at a minimum. They have been dust bathing in the big outdoor run... can I just add wood ash to the dust hollows and let them take care of it?

Thanks so much for the advice!
I know these girls have a long road, but I'm patient, and just want to make sure I'm taking the right steps in the right order.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Can you take some stool samples to your vet for testing of worms?

If they are in poor body condition, you may want to feed them chick starter or an all flock/flock raiser feed. Aim for 18-20% protein. Offer oyster shell separately free choice. Limit the amount of treats they get to no more than 5-10% of daily intake - eggs, mealworms (small amount), fresh fruit/veggies or a small amount of scratch.

As for water additives...that's up to you. Plain fresh clean water is usually best. But you may want to add poultry vitamins to the water 1-2 a week or use the vitamin water to make them a wet mash a couple of times a week to give them a boost.

If you can post some photos of Nay Nay's vent the next time you give her a wash up that would be good. Along with poop photos too

If there is only intermittent sneezing for the most part as far as the respiratory issues go, then I would just monitor that. If more symptoms occur, coughing/wheezing, watery eyes, mucous, etc., then you may need to treat with antibiotic. Since you don't know their "history" very well - it probably is a respiratory illness that she has, but other causes could be mold or poor ventilation in the coop.

Give them both another good inspection for lice/mites, feel the abdomens for bloat/swelling, look at the foot (bottoms too) for any indication of breaking down of tissue/bumblefoot.

 

[dmanhefner]

I am really sorry you are having the issues you are but it is not your fault. Not everyone who sells birds locally has a stand up attitude, and others are just ignorant about problems. You got sold chickens with a number of issues, whether it was done with intent to deceive or out of ignorance. The rattle you hear in breathing and the sneezing are indicative of some kind of respeitory issue. If it is viral then medication will not help. If it is bacterial then you may use antibiotics but you will be guessing. If you do not mind the expense of antibiotics you can pick one and try and see if it helps. This gets on to another issue with chickens, in had to learn this the hard way. Their immune systems do not work as ours do. When they get sick with bacteria such as micoplasma gallisepticum, infectious coryza, or others they will show symptoms and may improve with treatment. However, they will continue to carry those organisms in their bodies and anytime they are stressed they can become sick with them again and require another course of treatment. They remain lifelong carriers and can infect other chickens whether or not they are symptomatic. There are also viral diseases such as infectious bronchitis or infectious laryngotracheitis which also remain with the bird even after treatment/healing.
Your two new birds likely have one of the above issues but it is impossible to tell which without testing. Before going to further expense you should consider whether or not you are willing to possibly treat your birds regularly for the course of their life, and you should also assume that at some point your previous bird as well as any others you bring on will be infected with whatever the new birds have unless you never let them mingle and never cross contaminate anything between them, a difficult proposition. If you do not have a pair of chicken only shoes that never leave your property then you could also potentially bring this to other keepers when you visit the feedstore or bring something home with you as well.

This will seem harsh but I would recommend culling the two recent additions. There is a strong possibility that they will never lay eggs well since they are sick, and some diseases cause them to stop laying permanently. The comb lesions on your buff orpington could be fowl pox, it is virus like chicken pox to us, it makes them uncomfortable for a while but after recovering they do not get it again like some of the more sinister conditions.

I experienced the heartache of culling my entire flock. We had over 100 birds of various breeds as well as guineas and turkeys and I had to cull them all due to bringing on sick birds. I kept quarantine but it wasnt good enough. I had testing before I did this and after testing I did not have a choice as they had a reportable disease for my state.

 

[Cragg Klefor]

Thanks for the reply Cragg. (And the links!)

Crop function was something that was not really on my radar. I checked Daisy yesterday afternoon and it really felt like there wasn't a whole lot in there. She's still not roosting on a perch (nesting in a little hay box I've provided for her instead) and her little night poops are pretty minimal. Any ideas on jump starting her appetite?

I was considering starting them on ACV but wasn't sure about overloading them on water additives. They've been on a three day run of water administered probiotics. Should I continue with those or switch it up to ACV for a while?

The article on respiratory issues is scary... I think I've actually read through that one before. I guess I'm just at a wait-and-see point with her at the moment as the only symptoms I'm seeing are intermittent sneezing and poor body condition/appetite.
Thankfully her "sick mate" isn't sneezing, so I'm just putting that one on the back burner for now.

Nay Nay is still has yucky runny poops, but she's staying cleaner and I think the consistency is improving. (the smell certainly has!) How long does it usually take for Gleet to clear up?

As for the creepy crawlies...
Yes, I've been wondering how to tackle that one too. I didn't see anything obvious while doing the vent checks on Nay Nay, but she was wet at the time (right after a soak) and I don't have an eye for these things yet. I've also been trying not to handle them any more than I have to to keep stress levels at a minimum. They have been dust bathing in the big outdoor run... can I just add wood ash to the dust hollows and let them take care of it?

Thanks so much for the advice!
I know these girls have a long road, but I'm patient, and just want to make sure I'm taking the right steps in the right order.

Well so far you have taken great steps with them. And yes, possibly a long road ahead but I think once you see they are improving that will help a great deal?!

Dust bathing is great for limiting pests on chickens but if there is an infestation you will need to intervene.
So to tackle the mites/lice issue (but that I mean the search for lice/mites) here's what you can do:
Wait until they are settled for the night (this is when many of the creepy crawlies come out to play), using a flashlight or a good strong head lamp check the chickens vent area, under their wings and around their necks. It will be easier at this time also because they will be half asleep and a lot quieter than any other time. You will need to look closely, you are looking for possibly tiny little creatures.
Here's what you are looking for!

If you find any of these on the chickens the best way to treat them is Permethrin spray or dust. The spray is handier but in cold weather it wouldn't be ideal to be spraying them so it's probably wiser to use the dust. You would dust each of the chickens, completely clean out the coop they are staying in (the pests hide in crevices in the coop) and spray the interior of the coop with permethrin spray. This would need to be repeated in 10 days I believe (i'll have to confirm that for you) to ensure you get any hatched eggs from the mites/lice.
I think that covers the mites and lice.

To check for bumblefoot on their feet, clean off their feet so you can see them clearly. You are looking for any little scratches or scrapes or if it's advanced there will be an infection so you'll probably find lumps. This is on the bottom of the feet. If you clean off their feet and take some photos and post here we'll certainly have a look for you and tell you if we see anything. If there's anything there we will tackle that then.

Remember you will need to check their crops first thing in the morning before they eat or drink anything to get a measure of their crop function. Let us know also how that goes!

As for boosting their appetites, try letting their feed (pellets/crumbles) soak in some water for even 30 minutes before feeding it to them. I soak my pellets overnight always and my girls always love them from day 1 and it's no hassle, takes a couple of minutes extra.

Lastly, as Wyorp Rock suggested check out their abdomens for bloating or swelling. This can give you an sign if there are reproductive issues. Cup your hand underneath between their legs and feel up towards their vents. Perhaps do this to your other chicken to compare!

In case you are unaware... you are doing great by these girls

 

[Gizabelle]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Well, the girls are looking a little livelier today! I think they are enjoying being outside in the fresh air. I tried to get some pics, but none really came out.

I did a vent check on both:
Nay Nay looks to be in need of another soak. Not the crazy all-over-place mess it was, but looks hard and a little caked directly around the vent. I felt terrible putting her back like that, but by the time I realized this it was too late to do a soak and get her dry again before dark. I'll take care of it tomorrow and get some pics.
Daisy's vent looks fine, nothing really going on there. But I found mites! or something... I tried to get a picture, but you can't see them. Lines of little black bugs close to the shaft of the largest tail feathers. I'm going to treat all three girls and clean/treat the coop tomorrow.
Feet look ok on both, just really really pale. Hopefully ousting the parasites will show some results in that regard.
Daisy's overall body condition is really awful. She's clearly a much younger bird, but even so, she's terribly terribly light. I'm afraid she'll never be 100% being in this condition at such a young age, but I'll do what I can for her and see what happens. She's been much more active the past few days and runs to greet me now. I'm taking it as a small token of progress.

I'll go out in the morning for another crop and abdomen exam. Great advice, starting with my healthy hen as comparison. I wish I had seen that post before the evening visit.

As far as vet diagnostics... my vet won't do a fecal without an exam. My husband is already raising an eye at all the time, energy, and money I've spent on these two. I'm pretty sure if I suggested taking them to the vet at this point I'd be sleeping in the coop with them for a few days.
Maybe it was the wrong call, but living in Florida and having seen where they came from I just assumed they had worms and went straight for a relatively safe broad spectrum dewormer. (Fenbendazole via water; 3 day run at 3ml/gal of 10% suspension) They are due for the first follow-up dose on Thursday.
BUT I have considered sending samples off to my state lab for the respiratory problem. I am not sure which tests to request, however. If anyone knows, or is willing to take a look at their services page, the link is here: https://www.freshfromflorida.com/Bu...Fees/Poultry-Non-Poultry-Avian-Tests-and-Fees

About culling: Yes, I know it is the most judicious course of action, but I've decided to see this through and help them if I can. They've already been here for a month, so the damage is done as far as infecting the property. And yeah, I knew from the first that they may be permanently weakened or poor layers. My husband and I discussed this when first deciding whether or not to take them back the first night. Our birds have always been pets; pets with the benefit of eggs and bug control, but pets first. All we really wanted to begin with was a friend for Red. I had that horrible realization the first night that I may have doomed her, but we can't change it now, so I'm working with what we've got.

Again, thanks to all of you!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Daisy's vent looks fine, nothing really going on there. But I found mites! or something... I tried to get a picture, but you can't see them. Lines of little black bugs close to the shaft of the largest tail feathers. I'm going to treat all three girls and clean/treat the coop tomorrow.

What are you going to treat them with for the external parasites?
It was probably mites, but here's a good article - especially the photos I think are helpful. A Permethrin based spray or dust would work. https://the-chicken-chick.com/poultry-lice-and-mites-identification/

It's good that you are worming them. Are you using the Safeguard Aquasol that is designed to go in the water since you mentioned mixing it with water.
I know some have tried using the Liquid goat wormer in water with mixed results, reporting that the wormer settles out. I'm not even sure of how much would go in the water since the only dosing information I have is by weight.

For testing...the most common respiratory illnesses are Mycoplasma, Infectious Bronchitis, Infectious Coryza and ILT.

 

[dmanhefner]

You can call the state vet and ask them which ones to do if you want to go that route. They will tell you what to collect, how etc. They were very helpful for me, of course I'm in Texas but from what I have seen on the forum most states are.

 

[ShannonR]

Well so far you have taken great steps with them. And yes, possibly a long road ahead but I think once you see they are improving that will help a great deal?!

Dust bathing is great for limiting pests on chickens but if there is an infestation you will need to intervene.
So to tackle the mites/lice issue (but that I mean the search for lice/mites) here's what you can do:
Wait until they are settled for the night (this is when many of the creepy crawlies come out to play), using a flashlight or a good strong head lamp check the chickens vent area, under their wings and around their necks. It will be easier at this time also because they will be half asleep and a lot quieter than any other time. You will need to look closely, you are looking for possibly tiny little creatures.
Here's what you are looking for!
View attachment 1630150

If you find any of these on the chickens the best way to treat them is Permethrin spray or dust. The spray is handier but in cold weather it wouldn't be ideal to be spraying them so it's probably wiser to use the dust. You would dust each of the chickens, completely clean out the coop they are staying in (the pests hide in crevices in the coop) and spray the interior of the coop with permethrin spray. This would need to be repeated in 10 days I believe (i'll have to confirm that for you) to ensure you get any hatched eggs from the mites/lice.
I think that covers the mites and lice.

To check for bumblefoot on their feet, clean off their feet so you can see them clearly. You are looking for any little scratches or scrapes or if it's advanced there will be an infection so you'll probably find lumps. This is on the bottom of the feet. If you clean off their feet and take some photos and post here we'll certainly have a look for you and tell you if we see anything. If there's anything there we will tackle that then.

Remember you will need to check their crops first thing in the morning before they eat or drink anything to get a measure of their crop function. Let us know also how that goes!

As for boosting their appetites, try letting their feed (pellets/crumbles) soak in some water for even 30 minutes before feeding it to them. I soak my pellets overnight always and my girls always love them from day 1 and it's no hassle, takes a couple of minutes extra.

Lastly, as Wyorp Rock suggested check out their abdomens for bloating or swelling. This can give you an sign if there are reproductive issues. Cup your hand underneath between their legs and feel up towards their vents. Perhaps do this to your other chicken to compare!

In case you are unaware... you are doing great by these girls

Are you sure you posted the correct illustration? I thought there was one that outlined fowl lice and different types of mites?