Rooster started humping my TV remote.😱

[ILoveBabySilkies]

The problem is, different people have different definitions of livestock. Some people think of dogs, cats, pigeons, etc as livestock. Some think of pigs, chickens, horses etc as pets.

Correct their is NO right answer as to what animals are considered livestock, that ranges widely through places and homes.

 

[2 many chickens]

The problem is, different people have different definitions of livestock. Some people think of dogs, cats, pigeons, etc as livestock. Some think of pigs, chickens, horses etc as pets.

Y'all are rattling my brain today lol
If it goes oink, cluck, moo, cock a doodle doo, neigh, baaaaah, quack, or anything like that, it should be outside.✌

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Maybe I should have worded it a little better. How about this, livestock should live outside. Such as chickens, pigs, blah blah.

I apologize if I can across as rude or insensitive, wasn't trying to be. sometimes I can be snarky.

Nah it's just a very funny idea. I think that what livestock is or isn't is pretty meaningless here because that varies by country, and obviously livestock can be intelligent and trained to litterboxes and many other pets are not intelligent or litter trainable, and most animals can live outside in the wild. I mean, I have a husky that hunts rabbits and is suited for the environment and it's ILLEGAL to keep her outside where I live. Some people think that's cruel, it's very cultural. So just because it's not commonly done doesn't mean this rooster is unhappy IMO.

I think if we look at actual research on if an animal is happy in its environment we look at a few things;
Activity level
Natural behavior fulfillment
Destructiveness
Habitual neurotic behavior
Health

For example, if a horse is cribbing in its stall, a dog is shredding your couch, or a chicken is lying about depressed and unmoving, or a snake has scale mites - that's not a happy animal.

But if the rooster here is crowing, digging in its litter, and not actively trying to destroy household objects from boredom... Plus it's eating, drinking, healthy and safe... There's nothing to ACTUALLY point to this chicken having a worse quality of life than any other bird. We like to say "chickens are happier when X" but... We humans are happier when we're cozy and warm indoors with easy access to food as opposed to our natural environment. So how do we really tell if an animal is doing well?

There's a LOT of research on this, especially out of zoos, and how to keep animals in confinement that would normally be unhappy in an enclosure happy. This is a regular occurrence in our human society. We observe their behavior, make changes, and then re-observe. We can see when pacing decreases in captive animals, when sleep balances out with activity, when animals are preforming natural behaviors and when they're refusing to. There's no reason at all that those same techniques for enrichment and monitoring can't be applied here. It's all very quantifiable.

And tbh, OP would know better than most of us if any quantifiable negative results were taking place. I see many posters suggesting that the rooster is mounting the remote is a sign they are lonely. It's not. It's normal horny teenager behavior - actually a sign of a confident and healthy animal exhibiting normal behavior. I've had house rabbits that used to wanna mount my legs, dogs mount stuffed animals, and like other have said outdoor birds mounting random objects. Nothing about this chicken screams to me that it is in a situation detrimental to its wellbeing.

If someone has some sort of ACTUAL evidence to the contrary - maybe a report on house chickens living shorter lifespans, showing increased stress hormones, or showing decreased activity levels compared to flock chickens- I'd love to see it. But right now it all sounds kind of like conjecture and posturing and feels and has very little to do with the reality of how well off this bird is or isn't.

 

[2 many chickens]

Nah it's just a very funny idea. I think that what livestock is or isn't is pretty meaningless here because that varies by country, and obviously livestock can be intelligent and trained to litterboxes and many other pets are not intelligent or litter trainable, and most animals can live outside in the wild. I mean, I have a husky that hunts rabbits and is suited for the environment and it's ILLEGAL to keep her outside where I live. Some people think that's cruel, it's very cultural. So just because it's not commonly done doesn't mean this rooster is unhappy IMO.

I think if we look at actual research on if an animal is happy in its environment we look at a few things;
Activity level
Natural behavior fulfillment
Destructiveness
Habitual neurotic behavior
Health

For example, if a horse is cribbing in its stall, a dog is shredding your couch, or a chicken is lying about depressed and unmoving, or a snake has scale mites - that's not a happy animal.

But if the rooster here is crowing, digging in its litter, and not actively trying to destroy household objects from boredom... Plus it's eating, drinking, healthy and safe... There's nothing to ACTUALLY point to this chicken having a worse quality of life than any other bird. We like to say "chickens are happier when X" but... We humans are happier when we're cozy and warm indoors with easy access to food as opposed to our natural environment. So how do we really tell if an animal is doing well?

There's a LOT of research on this, especially out of zoos, and how to keep animals in confinement that would normally be unhappy in an enclosure happy. This is a regular occurrence in our human society. We observe their behavior, make changes, and then re-observe. We can see when pacing decreases in captive animals, when sleep balances out with activity, when animals are preforming natural behaviors and when they're refusing to. There's no reason at all that those same techniques for enrichment and monitoring can't be applied here. It's all very quantifiable.

And tbh, OP would know better than most of us if any quantifiable negative results were taking place. I see many posters suggesting that the rooster is mounting the remote is a sign they are lonely. It's not. It's normal horny teenager behavior - actually a sign of a confident and healthy animal exhibiting normal behavior. I've had house rabbits that used to wanna mount my legs, dogs mount stuffed animals, and like other have said outdoor birds mounting random objects. Nothing about this chicken screams to me that it is in a situation detrimental to its wellbeing.

If someone has some sort of ACTUAL evidence to the contrary - maybe a report on house chickens living shorter lifespans, showing increased stress hormones, or showing decreased activity levels compared to flock chickens- I'd love to see it. But right now it all sounds kind of like conjecture and posturing and feels and has very little to do with the reality of how well off this bird is or isn't.

Point made. Makes sense.

This is why I leave the table at Thanksgiving when debates start lol, I typically lose.

 

[AngBantamLuv]

I had a trio of cockatiels way back in the day. I had bought them a little plastic tweety bird on a plastic branch and put it in their cage. They went TO TOWN on poor Tweety Bird. I promise, they were VERY HAPPY!!

 

[ILoveBabySilkies]

Nah it's just a very funny idea. I think that what livestock is or isn't is pretty meaningless here because that varies by country, and obviously livestock can be intelligent and trained to litterboxes and many other pets are not intelligent or litter trainable, and most animals can live outside in the wild. I mean, I have a husky that hunts rabbits and is suited for the environment and it's ILLEGAL to keep her outside where I live. Some people think that's cruel, it's very cultural. So just because it's not commonly done doesn't mean this rooster is unhappy IMO.

I think if we look at actual research on if an animal is happy in its environment we look at a few things;
Activity level
Natural behavior fulfillment
Destructiveness
Habitual neurotic behavior
Health

For example, if a horse is cribbing in its stall, a dog is shredding your couch, or a chicken is lying about depressed and unmoving, or a snake has scale mites - that's not a happy animal.

But if the rooster here is crowing, digging in its litter, and not actively trying to destroy household objects from boredom... Plus it's eating, drinking, healthy and safe... There's nothing to ACTUALLY point to this chicken having a worse quality of life than any other bird. We like to say "chickens are happier when X" but... We humans are happier when we're cozy and warm indoors with easy access to food as opposed to our natural environment. So how do we really tell if an animal is doing well?

There's a LOT of research on this, especially out of zoos, and how to keep animals in confinement that would normally be unhappy in an enclosure happy. This is a regular occurrence in our human society. We observe their behavior, make changes, and then re-observe. We can see when pacing decreases in captive animals, when sleep balances out with activity, when animals are preforming natural behaviors and when they're refusing to. There's no reason at all that those same techniques for enrichment and monitoring can't be applied here. It's all very quantifiable.

And tbh, OP would know better than most of us if any quantifiable negative results were taking place. I see many posters suggesting that the rooster is mounting the remote is a sign they are lonely. It's not. It's normal horny teenager behavior - actually a sign of a confident and healthy animal exhibiting normal behavior. I've had house rabbits that used to wanna mount my legs, dogs mount stuffed animals, and like other have said outdoor birds mounting random objects. Nothing about this chicken screams to me that it is in a situation detrimental to its wellbeing.

If someone has some sort of ACTUAL evidence to the contrary - maybe a report on house chickens living shorter lifespans, showing increased stress hormones, or showing decreased activity levels compared to flock chickens- I'd love to see it. But right now it all sounds kind of like conjecture and posturing and feels and has very little to do with the reality of how well off this bird is or isn't.

Very well said, a lot of people are very quick to shoot down things when they have nothing to back it up now if they could provide evidence about how detrimental having an indoor chicken is for the chickens health I could totally change my mind if shown actual facts. This topic is a topic that as of right now is based pretty much on opinion, at the end of the day we are not OP so who are we to say how that chicken is doing.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Point made. Makes sense.

This is why I leave the table at Thanksgiving when debates start lol, I typically lose.

I don't think you lost. I think we just both came closer to a synthesis. That's what debate is great for!

 

[ILoveBabySilkies]

Point made. Makes sense.

This is why I leave the table at Thanksgiving when debates start lol, I typically lose.

It’s alright this was not you losing this was all of us becoming more understanding, that is the point of a debate not too bash others on their opinion.(As long as your opinion does not hurt, discriminate, or show prejudice against other people no one should tell you that it isn’t a valid opinion)

 

[The Happster]

I'm going to go re-read animal farm. It's been a while and it seems like an appropriate time. Have fun with the debate.

Guess I'll go re-read Lord Of the Flies.
Seems like an appropriate time.

 

[2 many chickens]

Guess I'll go re-read Lord Of the Flies.
Seems like an appropriate time.

Definitely a good holiday book