run mud smells like a pig's sty and low tide....

[jamband]

Chris

if you don't believe this happens you are way in the dark about big corporate farms... but you dont need to believe me.......if you desire more proof watch the movie earthlings

 

[Keltara]

From research done at Universities. I already posted one if you care to read it and there are 3 more posted on here. Are you really denying that the sand and clay mix over time?

Like i said if dump trucks of sand is your choice fine.....but there are other cheaper, more sustainable ways. No one cleans poop up for wild ducks, geese, etc nor did anyone pick up poop from Jungle fowl. .......Nature can and will handle things when in the right proportions.

and if you want a bigger issue read this......http://www.usatoday.com/money/indus...12-01-08/fracking-boom-sand-mining/52398528/1

Your words "No one cleans poop up for wild ducks, geese, etc nor did anyone pick up poop from Jungle fowl ". Of course no one cleaned up their poop! They also were not kept in chicken runs. As I have stated before to you. We are talking about chicken runs. Yes I read the articles about amending "garden soil". Again, not chicken runs. We are speaking about chicken runs that have a primarily clay foundation. Coarse sand on top of clay is extremely effective. You can believe what you want but I suspect just by your continual lack of respect to the people who are bringing evidence and truth based on personal experience to the subject, that you will choose to believe whatever you want. What I am telling you, is to respectfully stop telling this poster and the people who are currently using sand on top of clay successfully that it is not effective.

imitating nature is silly??? hmmmm its seem to do a good job for a few million years but we can do better? I am seeing your side is just about your needs and not the larger good so you probably won't see the point.....

Also lots of trainers beat animals to break or "train" them.....shall we assume this the proper approach? I mean "farmers" force feed animals to reach wanted weight too. Just because people do it does not make it best practice

And just to be clear. You say that you believe that I am only interested in "my needs and not the larger good"? My concern is for the health, safety and well being of my chickens.

Abusing animals has nothing to do with chicken runs. We are talking about chicken runs and the use of coarse sand over clay.

edited by staff

 

[Keltara]

ahhh now we are catching on......maybe the underlying issue is permanent runs and overstocking?

25x25 is 625 sq ft.... about 1/64th of an acre........long term sustainable #'s for that area is less than 1 chicken

Once again, trying to redirect the conversation to something other than the issue at hand. Chicken runs, coarse sand over clay.

edited by staff

 

[cjwaldon]

Adding organics to improve soils works wonderfully for a garden. Compost does not smell. Grass clipping mulch extremely well, keeps the weeds down, plants grow great. Hmmm, chicken poo, straw and grass clippings. Excellent compost recipe. Works great in the compost, great in the garden. And the chickens will stir it all up for me. So tossed several mower bags of fresh grass clippings in the run (on top of farm soil). It worked fantastic. For about a day. Then it all turned into a rotting stinky slimy mess. I then spent about a week raking and shoveling heavy stinky muck out of the chicken run. Of course the old farmer laughed his head off when he found out what I did. Wish I had found BYC before I did that. I have not tried sand yet as the current coop and run are slated for demolition and replacement/relocation.

 

[jamband]

Your words "No one cleans poop up for wild ducks, geese, etc nor did anyone pick up poop from Jungle fowl ". Of course no one cleaned up their poop! They also were not kept in chicken runs. As I have stated before to you. We are talking about chicken runs. Yes I read the articles about amending "garden soil". Again, not chicken runs. We are speaking about chicken runs that have a primarily clay foundation. Coarse sand on top of clay is extremely effective. You can believe what you want but I suspect just by your continual lack of respect to the people who are bringing evidence and truth based on personal experience to the subject, that you will choose to believe whatever you want. What I am telling you, is to respectfully stop telling this poster and the people who are currently using sand on top of clay successfully that it is not effective. That is a lie.

I have not once said it dont work, not once. I said if it fits you fine but there are better ways and you have not countered that with any info except what you do......soil is soil whether for chickens or plants soil and sand does not equal drainage. Just go dig a hole in you run and tell me how well the clay is draining.


And just to be clear. You say that you believe that I am only interested in "my needs and not the larger good"? That again is a lie. My concern is for the health, safety and well being of my chickens.

You said " They however serve a purpose. Eggs and meat. Because they serve our purpose, they are subject to the conditions that we keep them in."

Abusing animals has nothing to do with chicken runs. We are talking about chicken runs and the use of coarse sand over clay. Your behavior of trying to deflect and direct attention to something completely unrelated speaks volumes about yourself.

I did not bring up horse pens.....I did not say horse trainers do this so it must work....I simply countered the thinking of what others do must be right.....

I have several times now provided actual sources of info....you have not


Again I am not saying sand wont work as a chicken litter box.....simply that there are much better ways

 

[jamband]

What does this have to do with Chicken runs, and placing coarse sand over clay? Another redirection of conversation.

he asked about it.

edited by staff

 

[jamband]

Adding organics to improve soils works wonderfully for a garden. Compost does not smell. Grass clipping mulch extremely well, keeps the weeds down, plants grow great. Hmmm, chicken poo, straw and grass clippings. Excellent compost recipe. Works great in the compost, great in the garden. And the chickens will stir it all up for me. So tossed several mower bags of fresh grass clippings in the run (on top of farm soil). It worked fantastic. For about a day. Then it all turned into a rotting stinky slimy mess. I then spent about a week raking and shoveling heavy stinky muck out of the chicken run. Of course the old farmer laughed his head off when he found out what I did. Wish I had found BYC before I did that. I have not tried sand yet as the current coop and run are slated for demolition and replacement/relocation.

too much fresh grass.....it will slime and smell everytime.

 

[Keltara]

You said:

Quote:
Again I am not saying sand wont work as a chicken litter box.....simply that there are much better ways


Here are several quotes from you indicating the fabricated perils of sand (keeping in mind that we are talking about chicken runs).

dont know about that....I was being half sarcastic but sand and clay are 2 of 3 ingridients in plasters etc so I imagine it will become hard over time...I vote for improving the soil as well but my version would include areas being able to have rest periods as well. Like in paddock systems.

clay and sand are both used in cob building......the combination of sand and clay will not result in loose clay. it will become more bonding......I have clay soil and the last thing i would add to my garden would be sand

from Wash ST U

"When one mixes a sandy and a clay soil together, the
large pore spaces of the sandy soil are filled with the smaller clay particles. This results in a heavier,
denser soil with less total pore space than either the sandy or the clay soil alone."

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda chalker-scott/horticultural myths_files/Myths/Amendments 2.pdf

I have never heard of anyone using clay in potting soil ever...........there are 4 articles posted here showing sand and clay is not a good mixture.

You think that sand placed over clay soil will never mix??? I am not arguing that you can't clean your coop like a litter box. Simply stating that sand and clay dont mix.

sand and clay will result in compacted poorer than just clay draining soil

edited by staff

 

[Chris09]

organick,

I find it funny that of your posts on amending clay soil there is not one that I can say is from your own knowledge, they are all Dr. Chalker-Scott’s beliefs and you just reworded them to fit this thread.

Is there a reason for this?


Chris

 

[jamband]

Quote:

As I said before unless you are a farmer or you have been to a farm that does such a thing please don't spread hearsay.

You should know as good as I do that any Tom, Dick or Harry and post any thing they want on the internet.


Chris

Chris please don't attempt to blow this off an internet hype......Its quite well documented. Did you watch the video? I have never and will never abuse a women but I know it happens, I have never seen a child abused but it happens, I never met Abraham Lincoln but I am confident he existed. Shall we argue that too? The travesties that happen at the hands of corporate farms are nothing to blow off. If you choose to deny it or not believe it thats fine but dont acuse me "spreading hearsay" about something easily veriifiable.......