Russian Orloffs

[desertmarcy]

Yes, I was using Mahogany as the term for the base color as that was what I read in the information given to me and as a means to differentiating birds I didn't name. I wonder if the ones that are mostly white couldn't be carefully bred for all white? It is my hope to breed blacks back as I am still not finding the ones I really thought I saw here in Maine. Not too sure yet how I will but I think I might use black Ams. I haven't found another breed that is close but I am willing to learn. (hint hint)

There is some confusion on my part about the leg color. While I read both papers sent to me by Mr Casper I have not seen yellow legs and honestly hope not to. The yellow I am familiar with is on Leghorns and Comets-- bright, solid, crayola yellow (and rather unattractive to me personally). I like this wicker color on the ones I have. I will breed it up if I should but what color should it be like? I am rather visual, so a pic would be best. Please consult this page for leg confusion: http://www.ultimatefowl.com/viewtopic.php?p=1343

I've also read that the eggs are brown. Mine aren't. They are light brown, not medium at all. I have brown layers of a few types here and the ROs lay a beige/cream/nude colored egg. Is this something else to breed for? I know this is rather hard to breed for.

Another question: the muffs curl on one of the hens. Does anyone else see this in their birds? She is the only one so far but their beards are also growing back in after being with another owner before me.

Has anyone got a copy of this? "An Article by Will Hally (The Russian Orloff, Feathered World Year Book 1917-1919)

ashandvine, I have 2 Ameraucana hens, a black and a splash, and no cock. Just for fun and as a project, I breed my Orloff to them. The black hen produced all black chicks. The splash hen produced 50% blue and 50% black chicks. I held back 4 pullets of each color and 1 cockerel of each color. The black crosses are older and are laying now---green eggs as predicted. The cross has the muffs and beard, which you would expect since both parents do. They have the Orloff face and personality. I really like them! I don't have a clue about chickens color genetics, something I want to learn, so I am not sure what I will do from here other than enjoy the birds and green eggs. The blue crosses are beautiful. Some of the blue and the black crosses develop orange breast feathers. I would think if you wanted pure black Orloffs you could do that cross and work from there.

Yes I believe the Orloffs are supposed to have bright yellow legs. All mine were bright yellow as chicks. They don't look as yellow when they are older. Maybe the sun bleaches them out. We sure have more than our share of sunshine here.

The egg color on my Orloffs has always been pale brown. One of last year's hens is laying an egg now that looks almost white. If I didn't know if came from the Orloff, I'd say it was white. Her eggs were pale brown before. I don't have any white eggs layers to compare it to, maybe it is what you call cream. It just looks white to me since all the rest of my birds lay brown to dark brown eggs.

I have not seen any curled muffs on any of mine. Someone more knowledgeable may chip in how this might happen.

 

[NCSprout]

The above referenced link and standard refer to the old "Russian" standard. This was in the APA SOP prior to the late 1800's. It also dealt with black birds. I am aware of fowlafoot's work with her birds and wish she still had them. I am trying to track down her strain which was sold.
Here is a link which you may find helpful as far as color goes. http://www.russianorloffclubofgreatbritain.co.uk/id6.html Also some good pics that show type.

If you look at the history section in the above link you will find copies of a few early 1900's feathered world publications.

As I understand it, the eggs are to be "tinted". I take this to mean a color other than base white. One of the reasons for translating and copying the standards is to create a dialogue where we can discuss and formulate a standard for the US. I have only seen light brown/beige eggs. I believe this is the color that they should be, I don't think they need to be darker.

 

[NCSprout]

I think using Ameraucana to cross in the black plumage may result in skin color and dermal complications later on. It would also be a bit difficult to breed away from green eggs since you can't tell what color is carried by the male. I personally am weighing the effects of Dominiques, Exchequer Leghorns, and Black/Mottled/Cuckoo Asil.
A barred hen crossed with a spangled cock should produce black hens. The beards would be bred according to size in future generations, and skin/leg color would be easier to work with. Black cocks would be produced by crossing the black F2 hens with the P1 cock. Type would also be bred to with future generations, pairing best to best.

 

[ashandvine]

Blue and Orange sounds interesting.

I've been to the UK site and like the look of those black mottles. I knew that Ams, having the dominant blue egg gene and their slate legs would be difficult. I had hoped by stating the obvious no-no someone would come up with a great idea. My only other go to is to use as dark a Malay as possible with a dark Mahogany or Spangle with little spangling. I do find it interesting how the EEs turned out. I'm considering what that means regarding the bit I know about genetics. Black to splash produces 100% blue in Ams. Hm. I am not familiar with Asils. I will look them up.

As far as the old standard, is that something that has already been thrown out?

 

[desertmarcy]

Blue and Orange sounds interesting.

I've been to the UK site and like the look of those black mottles. I knew that Ams, having the dominant blue egg gene and their slate legs would be difficult. I had hoped by stating the obvious no-no someone would come up with a great idea. My only other go to is to use as dark a Malay as possible with a dark Mahogany or Spangle with little spangling. I do find it interesting how the EEs turned out. I'm considering what that means regarding the bit I know about genetics. Black to splash produces 100% blue in Ams. Hm. I am not familiar with Asils. I will look them up.

As far as the old standard, is that something that has already been thrown out?

I was a bit confused, too. I expected all blues from the splash. Maybe she is a blue hen, that would make more sense. 50% blue and 50% black. I had posted pics of her way back on the Ameraucana thread and was told she is a splash. She is light blueish (very pale) and has just a couple of small black marks. The black marks is why I was told she is a splash, but as I understand it, blues can get some black leakage on them. In either case, the offspring are lovely. I just did the cross to get green egg layers but I'm happy with the way the birds turned out.

 

[ashandvine]

Splash are not blue. They are almost white, like a very pale Lav, with splashes of blue and black and lav.

 

[desertmarcy]

Splash are not blue. They are almost white, like a very pale Lav, with splashes of blue and black and lav.

Color is so subjective. Here she is when she was younger. I don't have any adult pics of her, but her color is basically the same. Sorry off Orloff topic for a moment..

 

[kahlua]

If she produced black and blue chicks, I don't think she could be a splash. Must just be a very light blue.

 

[ashandvine]

Okay... so I looked up Asil. They are game birds essentially, built like the Malay for all I can see. I will state this at the outset so you all know what you are working with here: I think these birds are creepy looking. With that admitted I also realized that their body type is nearly identical to the Orloff only the Orloff is meaty and heavily feathered.
On to my next question. When breeding how do you designate who should be P1 and P2? Do you begin with the out crossing right off and are you just picking based on best hen you have or best rooster you have and paring it with the other breed? Then breeding F1 back to the Orloff parent? I do not understand the pattern or priority in breeding like this. Is there an actual method??

 

[JKMAKO]

Here are 2 of mine that I got From http://www.rarefeathers.com/, was sent the eggs, and all hatched like clock work... now they have started to lay eggs and now I have 7 chicks... great birds...