Saipan Jungle Fowl Thread

[Gresh]

Quote:
It is quite possible that the chickens Saylor found were feral games. It is a proven fact that, during WWII, Japanese soldiers introduced a lot of different breeds of chicken to the islands they captured, and during their occupation of Saipan, they probably released their Shamos and other game breeds. These purebreds (theoretically) interbred with either native chickens or other imported chickens, and overtime the Saipan Jungle Fowl began to take on certain unique characteristics. I do not believe that Saipans are merely feral games, in the sense of the word. Saipans themselves are not completely game, and males can get along with each other, provided there is a good deal of space. Either the lack of selective breeding on Saipan eliminated the gameyness of the Saipans ancestors, or the Saipan is a result of games crossing with non-games.

Another theory (promoted by Saylor himself) says that Saipans began as ancient breeds brought to the island by Polynesian natives. When the Japanese imported their chickens, the native Saipanese fowl interbred with them, and the Saipan Jungle Fowl was born. This theory could also be plausible, as Oriental games are very old breeds and could've been bred by Polynesians, but it is really impossible to tell.

I think the lack of exact information on Saipanese fowl is the reason why there is a bit of controversy on their origin. They're not like the Asil, which can be found in ancient Indian documents from 3,000 years ago. Basically, Saipanese fowl could have originated in almost any way.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
It is quite possible that the chickens Saylor found were feral games. It is a proven fact that, during WWII, Japanese soldiers introduced a lot of different breeds of chicken to the islands they captured, and during their occupation of Saipan, they probably released their Shamos and other game breeds. These purebreds (theoretically) interbred with either native chickens or other imported chickens, and overtime the Saipan Jungle Fowl began to take on certain unique characteristics. I do not believe that Saipans are merely feral games, in the sense of the word. Saipans themselves are not completely game, and males can get along with each other, provided there is a good deal of space. Either the lack of selective breeding on Saipan eliminated the gameyness of the Saipans ancestors, or the Saipan is a result of games crossing with non-games.

Another theory (promoted by Saylor himself) says that Saipans began as ancient breeds brought to the island by Polynesian natives. When the Japanese imported their chickens, the native Saipanese fowl interbred with them, and the Saipan Jungle Fowl was born. This theory could also be plausible, as Oriental games are very old breeds and could've been bred by Polynesians, but it is really impossible to tell.

I think the lack of exact information on Saipanese fowl is the reason why there is a bit of controversy on their origin. They're not like the Asil, which can be found in ancient Indian documents from 3,000 years ago. Basically, Saipanese fowl could have originated in almost any way.

I think if someone had deep pockets, one could use genetic markers to determine how "Siapans" are related to other domestic / feral fowl populations. I would trust such information much better than historical records.


How do Siapans walk relative to known oriental games. To my eyes pictures of Siapans indicate a natural posture which is in contrast with most orientals where torso is held much more upright.

 

[centrarchid]

I did a little reading about Siapans. A statement was made that hens occasionaly raise offspring communally. Has anyone seen such behavior with Siapans?

 

[ClintD]

I havent had any saipans yet but last year my brahma cross hen and blue sumatra hatched and raised a clutch together as a team. It was really cool. The big hen was more mothering, I guess you could say, and the sumatra was very protective.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
I have American games, almost always a mother-daughter team, that have done same. Survival rate per hen was consistently lower than if single hen only raised brood. Too many conflicts.

If Siapans are / were real as a feral population, then such partnerships seem very plausible and potentially advantageous on an island devoid of natural predators and where competition with conspecifics is intense.

 

[Gresh]

Quote:
It is quite possible that the chickens Saylor found were feral games. It is a proven fact that, during WWII, Japanese soldiers introduced a lot of different breeds of chicken to the islands they captured, and during their occupation of Saipan, they probably released their Shamos and other game breeds. These purebreds (theoretically) interbred with either native chickens or other imported chickens, and overtime the Saipan Jungle Fowl began to take on certain unique characteristics. I do not believe that Saipans are merely feral games, in the sense of the word. Saipans themselves are not completely game, and males can get along with each other, provided there is a good deal of space. Either the lack of selective breeding on Saipan eliminated the gameyness of the Saipans ancestors, or the Saipan is a result of games crossing with non-games.

Another theory (promoted by Saylor himself) says that Saipans began as ancient breeds brought to the island by Polynesian natives. When the Japanese imported their chickens, the native Saipanese fowl interbred with them, and the Saipan Jungle Fowl was born. This theory could also be plausible, as Oriental games are very old breeds and could've been bred by Polynesians, but it is really impossible to tell.

I think the lack of exact information on Saipanese fowl is the reason why there is a bit of controversy on their origin. They're not like the Asil, which can be found in ancient Indian documents from 3,000 years ago. Basically, Saipanese fowl could have originated in almost any way.

I think if someone had deep pockets, one could use genetic markers to determine how "Siapans" are related to other domestic / feral fowl populations. I would trust such information much better than historical records.


How do Siapans walk relative to known oriental games. To my eyes pictures of Siapans indicate a natural posture which is in contrast with most orientals where torso is held much more upright.

Yeah, I think a genetic analysis would probably be a helpful asset in determining as much as we can know about Saipanese fowl. Like I said, there is really no way to know for sure how the Saipans came into being.

I too have noticed that some Saipans have a different body type than other Orientals. Some of them seem to look like large Modern Games but with a much longer neck. Really no erect type to them. However, I have seen pictures of other Saipans that have a very erect posture typical of your common Oriental. If I had Saipans, I would want to breed toward the more Oriental-looking type, though I must say that the other type is quite unique looking.

~Gresh~

 

[centrarchid]

The modern game posture seems more likely to be what a feral "Siappan" population would exhibit. The erect posture seems to be maladaptive for a land bird that has to walk about a lot and get most of eats off ground and by scratching.

 

[Gresh]

Quote:
That seems pretty logical. I think most of the erect-Oriental-type chickens are not the best of flyers in general. Saylor claimed this was an adaption to a plains environment. Though I'm not a Darwinist, I do believe in some of the principles of adaptation, and Saylor's opinion might have some weight to it.

 

[centrarchid]

The erect posture of the Orientals looks to me to be an adaption to the pit where naked heals where the norm. Selection pressure there would very strongly be for endurance while standing on ground. The typical chicken / non-oriental game / jungle fowl posture seems to be a more omnipotent stance more broadly adapted for speed, maneuverability, ground foraging and where applicable powered flight. My experience with oriental games is extremely limited but speed does not appear to be noteworthy in respect to any physical activity they engage in. The "Saipans", regardless of body type, appear much too heavy to be proficient flyers and they may not have had much need for flight on an island with minimal pressure from ground dwelling predators. Feathering they have is like most Orientals in that wing loading is much higher on Saipan / Oriental birds relative to old English games / jungle fowl. In order for such big boned / double muscled birds to fly with such small feathers, they would have to flap like hummingbirds.

 

[ClintD]

I want to see some good pics of saipans. It seems like there arent alot of them floating around. At least not of mature birds.