Save The House Sparrows (STHS)

[DurhamDuck]

Quote: I love birds. I'm not punishing them. I'm helping them. I think you should take a birding class and learn how nature works. You keep saying "nature" "nature" but this is not nature.
Quote: If it was young and had tender bark, of course it would. Just because it doesn't shout in pain doesn't mean it doesn't feel it. I mean, I see people on here cutting out their rooster's genitals with nothing to numb the pain. They say, "He doesn't cry, so he must not feel it" Do you believe that?

I'm astounded someone so horrified at the idea of killing an insect would even suggest something like "kicking" an innocent tree. What use is there in that? You have no respect for nature. You don't even seem to know what nature is.
Quote: Nature's plan was for House Sparrows to live on the other side of the ocean.

 

[holm25]

it depends on how you look at them we nursed on back to health last year and taught it to fly

 

[DurhamDuck]

I guess some people just like to be angry.

This thread is veering off into an animal rights discussion, which is forbidden on this forum.

BTW, you did not get back to me on a Salatin book. Which one should I read first?

 

[holm25]

me

 

[ChicknsRock]

I love birds. I'm not punishing them. I'm helping them. I think you should take a birding class and learn how nature works. You keep saying "nature" "nature" but this is not nature.
If it was young and had tender bark, of course it would. Just because it doesn't shout in pain doesn't mean it doesn't feel it. I mean, I see people on here cutting out their rooster's genitals with nothing to numb the pain. They say, "He doesn't cry, so he must not feel it" Do you believe that?

I'm astounded someone so horrified at the idea of killing an insect would even suggest something like "kicking" an innocent tree. What use is there in that? You have no respect for nature. You don't even seem to know what nature is.
Nature's plan was for House Sparrows to live on the other side of the ocean.

Honestly, I did not know how to identify HS from other sparrows before, but now I know people are actively encouraging them, I will learn, and next year, I will put up houses, and if they come, yes I will destroy them.

We can't just sit back and do nothing about extinction. Take your own advice.

If not us then who? If not me and you?
Right now! It's time for us to do something.
If not now then when? Will we see an end
to all this pain? It's not enough to do nothing! It's time for us to do something!​

I do not need a birding class. I am a birder. And I have had plenty of experience and knowledge about birds and wildlife, so quit telling me what I need and what I am.

I was only using that for an example. Of course I would not go out and kick trees for no reason. And oh, would someone with no respect for nature be so worried about the welfare of house sparrows? Maybe they should have never came here, but it's not like they flew over here by themselves. They were brought over here.

And to read your post and see that you actually care about extinction, how can you talk so bad about HS?

I love all wildlife and birds. And I care about bluebirds, but they are already getting help. It's the House Sparrow that nobody respects.
And this goes for everyone: nobody with the Holy Spirit in them would treat house sparrows so cruel and abusive.

 

[DurhamDuck]

Quote: I looked it up and a bunch of stuff about them being invasive came up. Maybe they are protected in their native range. I do not know much about lionfish.

 

[DurhamDuck]

Quote:
This is the point I'm trying to make to you. If they flew here by themselves I would let them do whatever they wanted. But they were brought here by man's sentimentality (gets us in trouble a lot doesn't it?).

Quote:

I am advocating extirpation, not extinction. Let them die here, and may they breed freely back in "the old country."

Quote: No need to get upset. I'm just trying to help you and our shared earth.
edited to remove more offtopic comments

 

[heartsizedfarm]

I disagree about cats. I do not mind having a couple of spayed/neutered barn cats, but letting them breed and kill things is bad. If we allowed native species to thrive, they would eat the mice. Where I live, I have seen gray foxes, red foxes, white weasels, and other animals. They can all eat mice. Cats were brought over here in the 1600s. Before that, were we overrun with mice? NO. Actually we have more mice now, since Norway rats were brought over here on Columbus's ships.

I have not been able to read any of Joel Salatin's books yet. Any recommendations? I have seen pictures of his farm, though, and I love the pastured rabbits! Bunnies should be on grass (if possible)!

Actually, even before the English breeds, the first chickens came from China. And I don't have chickens, just ducks and geese at the moment (and guinea pigs and cats and mealworms).
I think farm animals are different than invasive species, because, farm animals just stay on a farm. They don't go out and kill wild animals for food (or eat all of those animals' food).
I'm not saying non-native species should die out EVERYWHERE. I just think they should be kept where they belong. I'm not saying we kill sparrows to PUNISH them. No. We should just kill them because it's better for the rest of the birds. Think of it like this- let's say, you have a big flock of chickens. One day you bring in a new chicken, but you realize it has mites. Do you put it with your other birds? No. That would be cruel to the others. Instead you treat the new bird, and if that doesn't work, you would have to cull it. It's not because you hate the new bird- you're just doing what you have to do.

Actually, I only learned about the food chain and natural/invasive species for about quarter of a year in sixth grade. And I was taught by the woman whose grandfather killed the last native wolf in CT (she bragged about this, like it was a good thing!) So, if you want to learn about this stuff, you have to experience it... sadly.

Farm animals raise some of these dilemmas too. In my area bobolink are threatened because they nest in hayfields. Horse owners want first cut hay before July first because its less coarse. But bobolink nestlings don't typically fledge before July 15. So bobolink have become endangered.

What to do? Give up horses? Turn hayfields to native growth fields? Say goodbye to the bobolink because they just couldn't cut it in this made for man world?

My compromise. My horses eat very coarse hay, harvested July 30.

We can never restore perfect balance in the natural world that we have so horribly altered. But we should be mindful and not make it worse. I'm afraid I would have to take the bluebirds' side in this one. I can't bring myself to kill sparrows but one way people can help bring sparrow populations down is not put out winter bird feeders. It helps seed eaters as opposed to insect eaters, and seed eaters like sparrows are now out competing insect eaters like bluebirds. Again, human intervention to feed birds and prop up a population that otherwise would experience a natural decline.

 

[ChicknsRock]

And I'd say no one with the Holy Spirit would allow God's natural design to be desecrated by our own mistakes, but whatever, I know you will probably never agree with me (not as the result of this discussion anyway). You say people stomp them to death. I have not heard this. Maybe it is the case. But that does not mean killing them in all other ways is cruel. It is the opposite of cruel. We need to care for the land.

Because we brought them over here and made a mistake doing it doesn't mean we have any right to kill them. I read people stomped them to death in book of FAQ, published by The Lab of Ornithology.
House sparrows are now part of our land, so we need to care for them too.

 

[DurhamDuck]

Quote: Sad.

Quote: We do not have the right to kill them. We have the obligation to kill them, whether they are cute or not. I guess where you live they are not a horrible menace, but where I live they are, and it would be wrong of me to just sit and watch.