Second Generation Cinnamon Queen

Nov 4, 2017
17
21
69
Webster County, Missouri
Has anyone raised any second generation Cinnamon Queens? If so, are they as good at laying as the original hens? I already know that they look nothing like their parents, that's of no concern to me. My question is about the amount of eggs they lay.
 
Nov 28, 2017
2,871
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416
UK
CQ is another name for a red sex link, how well they lay will depend on their lines and the breeds used to make them. They would just be mixes at that point and loose their sex linking.
 
Nov 4, 2017
17
21
69
Webster County, Missouri
CQ is another name for a red sex link, how well they lay will depend on their lines and the breeds used to make them. They would just be mixes at that point and loose their sex linking.
Actually a red sex link includes both Cinnamon Queen and Golden Comet. The difference between the two breeds is the papa. Cinnamon Queen uses a Rhode Island Red papa and a Golden Comet uses a Cherry Egger papa. And while you didn't answer my question, I thank you for your input.
 
Nov 28, 2017
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UK
I can’t directly answer your question because the red sex link differs from breeder to breeder. A red sex link is a silver hen and red cockerel. It doesn’t matter which name you put to it, they’re a sex linking hybrid anyone can make, I could make some with a SLW and RIR and call it a Cinnamon Queen, or a Leghorn and NHR and call it a Cinnamon Queen. Like I said, how well they lay depends on the breeds used to make the sex links and their linage.
 

Ol Grey Mare

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I can’t directly answer your question because the red sex link differs from breeder to breeder. A red sex link is a silver hen and red cockerel. It doesn’t matter which name you put to it, they’re a sex linking hybrid anyone can make, I could make some with a SLW and RIR and call it a Cinnamon Queen, or a Leghorn and NHR and call it a Cinnamon Queen. Like I said, how well they lay depends on the breeds used to make the sex links and their linage.
Well you could call it a cinnamon Queen but you would actually be in correct. Yes the birds would be red sex links but not all red sex link are cinnamon queens. Cinnamon Queen gold star red star golden comer etc are proprietary names used by certain producers for their particular lines of red sex links. These proprietary names are often misappropriated and applied to birds for which they do not belong
 
Nov 28, 2017
2,871
4,400
416
UK
Well you could call it a cinnamon Queen but you would actually be in correct. Yes the birds would be red sex links but not all red sex link are cinnamon queens. Cinnamon Queen gold star red star golden comer etc are proprietary names used by certain producers for their particular lines of red sex links. These proprietary names are often misappropriated and applied to birds for which they do not belong

I understand this and it likely differs from America to England too.
There’s hybrid breeders here and they call their birds all sorts of things and make new names up for them.
But my point is, anyone can make a red sex link and call it any of those names, a purposeful cross is still a cross. Please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m still learning. I’ve never seen anyone sell a red sex link under those names and state with which breeds they made them or what line they come from, as far as I know, they could be creating Red Stars and selling them as Cinnamon Queens?
 

rebrascora

Free Ranging
5 Years
Feb 14, 2014
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Consett Co.Durham. UK
@featheredplanets
Hello fellow night owl!!

I don't think you have quite grasped the concept of this. The names given to these sex links are a bit like trade names or brands and the breeding is quite specific for each one. Yes it involves a red rooster over a silver hen but what the breeding is of those parents is quite specific for each type of red sex link. I'm not sure it is quite as straightforward as the OP suggests regarding the parentage being exactly one pure breed and another (there may be some cross breeding involved in the parents lineage) and I think the lines of the parent breeds will be quite important in creating each one. From what I understand, Joe Public can create a red sex link but is not entitled to call it a Cinnamon Queen or ISA Brown or any of the other names used by the hatcheries that create them.
It's a bit like buying a tin of baked beans. Heinz and HP have the same basic ingredients but slightly different recipes. You can make baked beans in tomato sauce yourself but you cannot call them Heinz or HP beans even if you were able to get a hold of the exact recipe and duplicate it.
 
Nov 4, 2017
17
21
69
Webster County, Missouri
Putting it laymen's terms, here in the US, a Cinnamon Queen is a cross between a Rhode Island Red rooster and a Rhode Island White hen. That is the standard. Period. End of story. While the APA does not recognize the breed per se, all reputable hatcheries know this is the industry standard. Using a Rhode Island Red hen and a Rhode Island White rooster results in what is known as an ISA Brown. Here in the US, there are no trademarks on breed names. Standards, yes. Trademarks, no. That means that hatcheries do not hold rights or patents on breed names.

In the last few days after thinking about it, I've decided to get pure stock from the hatchery in my area and raise my own Cinnamon Queens and ISA Browns rather than buying chicks of those breeds. And since no one here has raised second generation of either breed, and therefore cannot answer my question, I may experiment with the breeds (keeping the purity of each breed) and seeing what happens. It will take a couple years, but Lord willing, I have time to experiment and see what happens.
 

junebuggena

Crowing
Apr 17, 2015
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Long Beach, WA
Actually, ISA Browns are trademarked. And it's not nearly as simple as purebred A crossed with purebred B. Each 'brand' name has been specifically developed from proprietary lines. The parent lines may have primarily used a particular breed, but other things have been bred in. Each hatchery has their own particular recipe that has gone into the parent lines, hence all the different names for commercially available red sexlinks. Second generation birds aren't quite as prolific layers, and you will loose the sexlinking entirely.
 

rebrascora

Free Ranging
5 Years
Feb 14, 2014
7,127
8,765
556
Consett Co.Durham. UK
@junebuggena

Thanks for clarifying that. I was pretty sure I was on the right lines but struggling to convey it.


@Circle D Enterprises

While the APA does not recognize the breed per se, all reputable hatcheries know this is the industry standard

That's because it is not a breed, it's a hybrid. There are no standards for hybrids. It would be impossible to create them for hybrids because there are so many possibilities and since they don't breed true, what would be the point?


Using a Rhode Island Red hen and a Rhode Island White rooster results in what is known as an ISA Brown.

This is incorrect. The hen has to be white (silver) and the rooster red in order to produce a red sex link.
 

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