Separating chick feed and layer feed

[CKfarm22]

I have three laying hens that are on layer feed but i also have two 4 week old baby chicks. Right now the chicks are in a brooder in the coop so the older birds can get used to the chicks. But when the time comes, the chicks are going to grow out of the brooder they are in but will still need to be on chick feed until 18 weeks old. Right now i’m feeding the chicks the medicated feed by purina, and i know the older hens can not have that, so when the time comes how can i separate the feed or should i switch the chicks off of the medicated feed at a certain age? I’m new to having older hens and chicks together!

 

[RoyalChick]

I think what most people do is give the whole flock either an All-flock food or starter/grower food and then give supplemental calcium on the side in the form of oyster shell and crushed eggshells.
The babies can be weaned off medicated feed at that point, but you don't need to be too fussed - I had left-over medicated feed and the whole flock finished it up rather than waste it.

 

[RoyalChick]

The perfect solution is
- chicks and hens eat non-medicated food that is NOT for layers (all-flock, or starter/grower) and hens get supplemental calcium on the side
- then, when the chicks start laying everyone gets layer food
I am just saying you don't need to be super paranoid about small bits of leftover. Medicated chick feed does not have dangerous medicine in it - it contains Amprolium which blocks thiamine in the coccidiosis bug - there is no issue eating eggs from hens that have eaten some of it.
I don't think it would be good to feed it long term to the hens, but if you had a week's worth of medicated food left over from the chicks I would certainly let everyone eat it rather than let it go to waste.
Similarly, if the chicks happen to eat a tiny bit of layer feed it won't kill them - long term it is not good for their kidneys - so I would remove it from the run until they are ready to lay.

 

[Lizzy733]

I have a handmade feeder that has the hens layer feed in it, should i make another one that is the non-medicated feed? Or could the chicks just have the regular layer feed when they get to be 18 weeks?

I'd recommend a second feeder regardless... And waterer. It will help with integration so they cannot be bullied away from the feeder by your bigger girls. You won't be able to keep them from sharing food and the hens tend to prefer gorging on grower when given the chance. I don't know if this is just because it's different, but layer feed packs on the calcium, which is a bit much for growing chicks and can cause organ damage if consumed long-term while they're developing.

They won't get into the shell grit and the big girls will sort themselves out.

 

[Lizzy733]

Switch them all over to non-medicated grower when the time comes, but make sure there's plenty of oyster grit or crushed egg shell available for the big girls.

Medicated feed is to allow the chicks to develop a resistance to coccidia and should not be fed to adults. I know with the drops, it takes 3-4 weeks for this to happen. Not sure if it takes longer when it's feed-based, but it should have done its job by the time they're ready to integrate. Technically, they shouldn't be exposed by being taken outdoors while building the resistance either, but chicks do love a good run in the sun.

Make sure you have plenty of calcium grit on-hand. The layer's usage goes way up once it's no longer in their feed.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Since you already bought it, just feed the medicated starter to everyone when the time comes. I would rather feed hens and chicks that, than feeding layer to both hens and chicks.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Hopping in here. though you've had good advice, albeit somewhat scattered.

Whether or not to feed medicated feed is a personal decision, informed by circumstances. Some never feed it. Some always feed it, to birds of all ages. Most are somewhere inbetween. Eggs (and meat) from birds eating medicated feed (assuming amprolium, the most common coccidiostat in the US) is perfectly safe to consume. Even the same day they ate the feed. There is no "waiting period" for the stuff to get out of their system.

Personally, I would not feed medicated, given the choice. I have virgin ground, my flock has been "closed" for more than a year, there's never been a case of coccidosis on property, and I'm hatching birds specifically for suitability to my environment, so its in my interest to see which birds thrive in spite of, and which don't. Coccidia, btw, are present in every environment in which humans have been for long - there's no escaping it, the question is only whether your birds guts and immune system can keep the numbers of coccidia inside them under control. So why did I mention "virgin" ground? Because it means there were never chickens here before mine, who might have experienced an outbreak I'm unaware of.

However, I get my feed from a local mill - its cheap, its fresh, and its good quality. Used by commercial poultry operations all around me - and its almost all medicated, even the adult "layer" feed. Eggs coming out of those farms, and going in those supermarket cartons came from birds eating medicated feed all their lives.

So go ahead and use the bag - no harm. Be aware that if you feed supplimental thiamine (a B vitamin, B-1), you can render the amprolium in the feed ineffective.

For the typical backyard owner, of the typical backyard flock, with typical backyard management practices, I (and a vocal majority of experienced BYC posters) am going to recommend an All Flock/FLock Raiser type feed, supplimented by free choice oyster shell in a seperate dish. There are almost no circumstances where I will recommend feeding "layer", in spite of its label-driven popularity, for reasons I could get into in a much lengthier post. That diet All Flock + Oyster Shell is recommended for all birds of all breeds, of all ages, and all genders. Its easy, offers good nutrition, and virtually no downside.

The only practical way to feed birds different feeds is to have different pens, with different food stations. You can't put different feeds in the same space and expect the birds to eat the right one - that's why All Flock plus free choice oyster is so often recommended. It provides better nutrition, to all your birds, than does layer, without the damaging extra calcium. Your layers, otoh, can get the extra calcium they need - in the exact amounts they need - from the oyster shell. While those that don't need it will avoid it.

and, when integrating, abundance is a social lubricant. Even if feeding the same feeds, having multiple feed and water stations reduces stress and speeds successful integrations.

Full Disclosure: I don't feed my birds that way. Nor do I feed them straight layer - but as you can see from the sig below, I don't have the typical backyard flock, and I don't have the typical backyard management practices.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

This information is very much needed. In your opinion, should i stop giving them layer feed and switch to an all flock feed plus oyster shell?

"the dosage is the poison". Calcium toxicity has a time component, an amount component, a gender compent, a breed component, and an individual component.

In all likelihood, there will be no long term ill effects you are likely to notice if you continue to feed your birds the layer feed until the bag runs out, even if you inspect them closely post culling at some future date. Make the switch to All Flock/Flock Raiser when its out.

If, OTOH, you were to feed Layer to meaties, free choice, like CornishX from day one until culling for table between 8-12 weeks, and you were then to poke around in their insides, you would see evidence of calcium toxicity in the organs, though with few externally visible signs on the bird. Most studies I've read put the rate at about 1 in 7 +/-. If you continued to feed it to them, delaying culling till 18, 24, 30 weeks, etc - more and more birds would show internal damage, some would begin to show external signs, and a few would probably fall over dead - though even with a skilled necropsy, whether the cause was excess calcium or not might not always be determined - CX are notoriously brittle.

Basically, you are rolling your dice and taking your chances, just like hopping in the car and heading to the store involves a measure of risk. For adult birds near, at, or past onset of lay, producing reasonable-sized (Lg+) eggs with reasonable frequency (3 days of 5+), the risks associated with that bag are very very low, though I won't pretend to offer an exact figure. I can honestly say, however, "I'd risk it".

/edit and I've also used Starter/grower when I couldn't get All FLock last year, due to Pandemic shortages, before changing over to the local mill and a differing feed management practice.

 

[Brooks_]

involves a measure of risk.

So much of chickens comes down to that. I've been assured by some that a predator will get my roo before the calcium ever could. I can only mitigate the risk of predation, but I can control how much calcium is forced on him. Why take a chance on something I can control?

 

[Brooks_]

So layer feed isn’t good for laying hens is what i’m getting? and i should be feeding them an all flock food?

For the typical back yard flock, I've found most layer formulas to lack enough protein. I think all flock (with oyster shell on the side) is superior. But don't look at the "type" as an end all be all. Look at the nutritional label and go from there.