Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

Well, my large, unsightly wooden coop survived a direct hit from ian.

It did.

 

[Molpet]

Also of great interest to me is the Nestera Recycled Plastic Coop competition. It's had some interesting responses. Is this the begining of the end for the look what hubby built for me oversized impracticle coops that BYC have put a lot of effort into promoting?

A very smart move by Nestera in my opinion to sponser and hold such a competition here and expand into the USA, a move I will be supportive of.
There's a chance here for those of us who have already gone over to the dark side and have portable recycled plastic coops (yes I know the portable bit with my coop is a bit of an exaggeration ) to promote the idea and with that, the benefits of multi coop chicken keeping.
Yep I know there will be a lot of despondent American men who will now have to find other ways to demonstrate their marital worth and spend more time indoors with the missus.

Most of all though, will we see an outbreak of how I modified my plastic coop articles such as I am about to present.

Perhaps the next air quality disaster will be from people burning their wooden coops.

I also wish it was available in much larger size. Like 8ft square and walk in..of course it would weigh a ton

 

[no fly zone]

It did.

The problem is that prefab coops are so overpriced and/or weak and flimsy.

 

[notabitail]

@Shadrach
We ordered 15 chicks a few weeks ago. There was a extra. Then one died. So we are down to 15. I think the extra survived.

Spoiler

I have been whining that I want a rooster. And guess what? I think I have one. Does this mean I can join the rooster club?
Tax.

 

[notabitail]

The problem is that prefab coops are so overpriced and/or weak and flimsy.

I keep knocking the roost over in the prefab we have.

 

[Perris]

The problem is that prefab coops are so overpriced and/or weak and flimsy.

prefab coops are as various as wooden ones. These are not overpriced, weak or flimsy.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Hi folks, for those of you interested in the homemade/commercial feed discussion, here's the questions I had for Perris after reading his excellent article on the subject. (Well, the questions come after an impassioned soapbox rant about why I'm (finally) making the transition that Perris thought would resonate with others. I hope it does, or at least it's fun to read )

I posted Perris' response to my questions as the next post. @Perris -- one of the drawbacks about posting as a "Review" is that there's no way to take the discussion further -- I can't reply to your reply. And I do have a couple more questions, so I worked them in to your reply (in bold).

Here's my original review:

--Thanks for researching and writing this article, and including the references which I am reading with interest. It's very timely for me and I plan to put it in to practice starting now. I have a few questions below, but first, here is why I'm making the transition.

I've been thinking for a long time about making a homemade feed mix for my chickens. The biggest obstacle that's been stopping me is finding the time to research the different foods readily available here, their nutritional contents, and devising a formula – or formulas – based on my findings. It's just so darn easy to buy the bag of layer or chick crumble. And cheap – 40 cents per pound. We don't have enough help as it is running our farm and various projects as it is, and money is always an issue. But… I've received multiple signs that I need to find the time somewhere and stop buying this stuff.

The signs? Nothing from the ether, just the crappy fact that two out of the last three sacks of crumble I bought went moldy and I had to toss it. I only buy 20lb sacks, I keep the crumble in an airtight container, I and always use it within a month. So that means it's coming from the feed store already almost spoiled. I'd rather spend time than waste money on spoiled feed.

Where we live (rural Ecuador, rainforest climate) it's not like I have choices of feed brands, designer this or organic that. There's one or two big companies distributing animal feeds, one kind of feed for layers, one for chicks, and that's it. The layer and chick feed comes in unmarked plain sacks, no date, and the only way to find out what's in it is to ask the store proprietor if you can please look at the label on the enormous sack from the manufacturer in the warehouse. So I know the feed is a pretty typical commercial mix: wheat, soy, maize, sunflower oil, and a bunch of vitamin additives, 18% protein minimum. Maybe it's average as feeds go, but if I can't get it fresh enough to use without potentially poisoning my birds, that's the game changer right there.

Another reason: anytime I have a chicken who is feeling a little off, the first thing they do is reject the commercial feed. I'm not talking about dying birds. I've successfully treated some illnesses and when chickens are recovering, all they want is the scrambled egg, sardines, and wholesome carbs like quinoa or sweet potato that I give them. It's a chore to get them to go back to eating commercial feed again, and that tells me it's really not what they want or need.

My chickens free range all day every day in orchards, forest, and grassy areas. There's all sorts of wild berries, cultivated fruits, grasses, and native groundcover plants. They nibble at whatever looks good to them. They eat bugs, worms, frogs, lizards, moths etc. So I can assume they are supplementing their diet already with foraging.

Besides, I've wanted to make a change for personal reasons. I just don't feel good feeding them the commercial stuff. It feels like a convenient cop out, and that's not congruent with our lifestyle out here at all. Neither wheat nor soy are grown in Ecuador so what's in this feed is either GMO loaded crap from Empire USA or linked to Amazon deforestation in Brazil, or both. Lordy. And here I am talking about the importance of rainforests and food sovereignty and locally produced food and the evils of globalization and yadda yadda, but I've been buying this stuff for my chickens, whom I like better than most people. No wonder I feel like a total turd dishing it out to them.

I tossed the moldy feed today and have no plans to go into town for a few days, but the chickens needed to eat. So I just cooked up a pot of rice, quinoa, sweet potato, amaranth, flax seeds, lentils and added half a cup of yellow split pea flour to boost the protein. I added some fresh grated turmeric and ginger root from the garden. Maybe it's not perfect, but I felt good making it and the chickens loved it.

I've been giving them a big can of mackerel or sardines once a week, or making a stew with meaty beef bones, cassava and quinoa. And their reaction when I dish out something like that makes it obvious they are clamoring for something else than the crumble.

Ok, rant over. On to your article and my questions for you. I see that your personal studies led you to use wheat as a base ingredient. For reasons already mentioned, I don't want to use wheat. If I'm going to do this, I want to do it right, meaning I use what we grow on the farm and what's readily available from local sources.

I'd appreciate it if you could look at these lists of possible ingredients and advise me which ones would be your top picks for a homemade feed.

If I could devise a mix based on "free" ingredients (what we grow) from List 1 combined with ingredients from the second two lists, I could come up with something for the same cost as commercial feed.

We grow four excellent carbohydrate sources, each with different vitamin, mineral and fiber content.

List 1 (we grow it, just the sweat cost!)
Cassava (manioc). Big starchy tubers (not related to potato). Very low protein. High fiber. Some mineral content. The chickens love it. A lot of folks around here feed their chickens cassava, it grows so easily and is hugely productive. But is so low in protein, I wouldn't use it alone.
Camote. A tropical sweet potato. Less sugar than temperate sweet potatoes. Moderate protein. High fiber, vitamin and mineral content.
Taro. Small starchy roots. Not related to potato. Low protein. Good mineral content. Reportedly anti- inflammatory.
Plantains. Similar to bananas, but bigger with less sugar.* High in B vitamins and potassium. Can be consumed raw when yellow (ripe) or cooked when green.

All of these would require cooking to neutralize oxalates and make them more digestible. But I figure I could make a big batch every three days and by days two and three it would be lightly fermented. That's how Kichwa people get chicha (fermented drinks) started (and by adding their saliva, btw).

*Note: I'm careful with my flock eating bananas. I know they are excellent sources of nutrition, but occasionally they have gotten into an entire bunch that fell in the fruit orchard and ended up with a sour crop from eating dozens of rotting bananas, peels and all. So I'm more comfortable with using cooked green plantains because they are much lower in sugar or moderately ripe plantains raw.

List 2
Ingredients Locally available (at 50 - 60 cents per lb):
Barley
Cracked maize
Rolled oats
Rice*
Lentils
Black eyed peas (cowpeas)
Dried peas
Lupine
*I didn't think rice was very nutritious, but turns out it has a lot of benefits for chickens. My group prefers it cooked.
https://learnpoultry.com/chickens-eat-rice/

List 3
More Ingredients Locally available (at about $1 per lb):
These more costly ingredients I could add in smaller amounts to make the mix more nutritious.
Quinoa* (moderate protein, complete amino acid profile, )
Amaranth* (high protein, minerals)
Flax seed* (high protein, fat, minerals)
Chia seed* (similar to flax in composition)
Yellow split pea flour** (high protein)
Fava bean flour**(high protein)

*Regarding these ingredients, they are extremely high in some minerals. I see this might be a problem.
**These flours are easy to use by adding water to make a paste and mixing it in with a grain mix or mash to up the protein.

Question: I notice that you recommend using lentils sparingly because they have a lot of iron. Are there other minerals that chickens should not get in excess?

Question: How would I formulate the mix? I was thinking perhaps to research the nutritional contents of each food per 100g and try different combinations that would have a minimum protein and fat content and a broad array of vitamins and minerals. What's the easiest way to figure this out? Or is this calculation not even necessary?

Question: Seeing how some of these ingredients (especially the ones we grow) and the hard seeds (like quinoa and amaranth) require cooking, while others only need soaking and fermenting, I figure I could devise two "formulas" –
A cooked mash of cassava, camote, plantain etc with peas or lentils and seeds added. The tubers, quinoa, and amaranth all have equal cooking times so could be easily prepared.
A soaked fermented mix of oats, barley, and maize with peas and seeds added.

Does this sound like a good plan? To provide variety without going overboard?

I would still plan on giving them some sardines and/or meat weekly as a "real treat."

I really appreciate any of your expertise with this. I'm done with this commercially manufactured stuff. My birds deserve better.

Thank you very much!

 

[RoyalChick]

Also of great interest to me is the Nestera Recycled Plastic Coop competition. It's had some interesting responses. Is this the begining of the end for the look what hubby built for me oversized impracticle coops that BYC have put a lot of effort into promoting?

A very smart move by Nestera in my opinion to sponser and hold such a competition here and expand into the USA, a move I will be supportive of.
There's a chance here for those of us who have already gone over to the dark side and have portable recycled plastic coops (yes I know the portable bit with my coop is a bit of an exaggeration ) to promote the idea and with that, the benefits of multi coop chicken keeping.
Yep I know there will be a lot of despondent American men who will now have to find other ways to demonstrate their marital worth and spend more time indoors with the missus.

Most of all though, will we see an outbreak of how I modified my plastic coop articles such as I am about to present.

Perhaps the next air quality disaster will be from people burning their wooden coops.

I agree it is a good move on their part and I hope people who buy over-priced flimsy wood pre-fab coops will now buy recycled plastic coops.
Personally however, I like my oversized and not at all impractical coop because I can walk around in it. I often sit in there and read a book - it is sort of a second home for me.
You can buy dimensional lumber made from the same sort of recycled plastic Nestera are using. It is not cheap, and it is much heavier than real wood building lumber, but it is good stuff and will certainly outlive me.
I think we can call my coop a hybrid of wood and recycled plastic.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Here's @Perris reply, with more questions based on that:

--Wow! Go TropicalChickies! I think you only really need the confidence to fly with this; it's clear you've already done lots of research, and some practice, and there's little to nothing I can add on foods local to you: You already know them better than I do. I would use all of what you have of these list items when you have it fresh and in plenty; diversity is good. And I guess the forage is excellent.

On specifics, "by days two and three it would be lightly fermented. That's how Kichwa people get chicha (fermented drinks) started (and by adding their saliva, btw)" note that fermentation that leads to alcohol involves yeasts, rather than bacteria, and I don't know how good that may or may not be for their microbiomes; I've not researched it as yet.

Ah! Good point about yeasts vs bacterias. I'll do some research into that and in the meantime just keep chicken food prepared by cooking for a day or two, max.

Question: Is the fermentation aerobic or anaerobic? Do your jars have those fancy one way valve tops that let fermenting gasses out but not air in? Or do you just "burp" your jars?

Minerals to beware: it's copper and manganese as well as iron to be wary of with lentils. The 1994 book on Nutrient Requirements of Poultry chapter 8 is specifically on the toxicity of certain inorganic elements.

Ok, that's very good to know. I've read the chapter. Amaranth is extremely high in manganese, so perhaps best to leave that out and eat it myself. It's one of the more expensive adds anyway.

I don't have 'a' formula as such, and I don't think one is necessary or desirable because one size does not fit all. I have a base of grains and peas and mealworms/ sardines - and you have local equivalents - that I treat as a guide not a rule, and the key thing about what else I add is that it is fresh and that it changes, because it's seasonal or because they haven't had it recently. Again variety and diversity are my watchwords.

That's really interesting because I've seen many senior members of BYC (some of whom have been very helpful to me in other ways) post that any change to a chickens diet can trigger stress and needs to be very gradual. So I'm glad to know that your chickens do well with seasonal variations.

Foods that need cooking and foods that need fermenting do need to be prepared separately even if served together, and that does sound like a good plan. I too sometimes add for example a little fennel seed, brown mustard seed or suchlike to the ferment; they like fennel but most don't like the mustard. Typically I arrange the cooked foods by preparing extra when we are eating it, and put some aside for the next chicken meal.

Ok, sounds good.

Thank you so much for your review. What you say at the start will chime with a lot of people, I think. And maybe you would consider keeping notes to write an article in months to come on how the transition goes for you and your flock?

I went shopping today for bulk ingredients. Dry goods shops for humans in Ecuador are well stocked with all kinds of pulses, seeds, and grains. I plan on keeping tight track of my expenses and staying on budget comparable to what I was spending on commerical feed, while giving the chickens something much better. I also plan to monitor their health closely, record observations, and write a "tropical chicken feed" version of your article after I feel enough time has passed that these observations are worth something (at least a year).

Question: Regarding costs, so I could get a better idea of how much your feed plan costs, would you please tell me how many chickens you have and their ages?

Thanks again! I'm really looking forward to this transition. Judging on their response to two days of homemade food, so are my chickens.

 

[TropicalChickies]

so what's in this feed is either GMO loaded crap from Empire USA or linked to Amazon deforestation in Brazil, or both

Good grief, how do I report this? I mean the rainforest not the online shopping behemoth.