Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Perris]

On the “ranging” topic from a few pages back: The instructor at a chicken class at our farmers co-op 3 years ago included a few presentation slides on terminology. Not sure where his definitions were from, but he said, under no uncertain terms, free ranging means roaming with zero fences.

He would've called my setup "pastured": there's significantly more freedom than a coop run (8K sq ft) but with fences. In that case, I suppose people ranging without pasture could call their chickens forested, or jungled.

In reality, as I swing open the wide gate to their electric-protected yard each morning, I'm reminded of the work camps in Grapes of Wrath (or maybe their little dust bowls keep bringing up this imagery). While I'd prefer not to be responsible for setting their boundaries, I know they still get a ton of exercise. Not to mention a healthy degree of existential excitement, ducking raptors and dodging copperheads and other wildlife not deterred by fencing.

And hunting June bugs! I pity the beetles who cross Donna's path. She lives for this time of year. Tax. Pardon her dustbath booty and the shaggy grass. I asked DH not to mow this area until the baby bunnies are big enough to hop away (2 rabbit families take advantage of chicken-yard protections as well).

Donna hunts rain or shine. The others enjoy beetles but also the shade of the coop run on hot afternoons, so I went beetle hunting with a spare waterer and made a "treat" dispenser. I do feel kinda bad for the June bugs and Japanese beetles, but they’re invasive and sucking the life out of our fruit trees.

Personal definitions are what leads to muddle and confusion and help no-one in the long term. This particular concept ('free range eggs') is covered by egg trading legislation wherever you are (unless you really are in the back of beyond). For information, this is the official DEFRA / APHA guidance currently valid in the UK:

"18.1 Free Range and Barn - internal criteria
Where eggs are to be marketed as Free Range or Barn, the following internal design criteria apply to the units.
(i) There may be additional internal design criteria for certain Organic (Free Range) standards.
(ii) Establishments producing Free Range or Barn eggs, which have less than 350 hens in total, do not need to comply in full with the requirements marked with this symbol: ¥
• Stock density/Usable area - Maximum nine hens per square metre of usable floor area
• Litter - minimum 250sqcm per hen and must cover 1/3rd of the ground surface ¥ (see note above)
• Remaining floor surface - must support hens' forward facing claws on each foot ¥ (see note above)
• Multi-level units - additional levels may contribute to unit capacity where:
o hens are able to move freely between levels
o there are no more than four levels (including the floor) ¥ (see note above)
o headroom above each level is 45cm
o drinking and feeding facilities are distributed to allow equal access for all hens
o levels are arranged to prevent droppings falling on hens below.
• Perching must:
o provide 15cm of perch length per hen
o not be mounted above litter ¥ (see note above)
o be at least 30cm apart horizontally and 20cm from any wall ¥ (see note above)
o have no sharp edges
• Feeders - either
o continuous linear troughs - 10cm length per hen
o circular feeding troughs - 4cm outside length per hen
• Drinkers - either
o continuous troughs - 2.5cm length per hen
o circular drinking troughs - 1cm outside length per hen
o one nipple or cup per ten hens
• Nest boxes - either
o Individual nests - one nest per seven hens
o Group nests - 1sqm of nest space per 120 hens.

18.2 Free Range - external criteria
Where eggs are to be marketed as Free Range the following external criteria apply to the units. There may be additional criteria for certain Organic standards.
• Pop-holes providing access to range must:
o be placed along the entire length of each unit
o be at least 35cm high and 40cm wide
o provide a total opening width of 2m per 1,000 hens.
• Any other fencing or restrictions outside the unit must not inhibit the hens’ ability to access the range area.
• The range area (open air run) provided for hens must:
o be accessible to the hens continuously during daytime
o provide at least 1Ha per 2,500 hens (4sqm per hen) at all times
o where 10m2 per hen is available in total, paddock rotation is permitted when hens have access to the whole available area during their life and at least 1Ha per 4,000 hens (2.5sqm per hen) is provided at any one time
o be mainly covered in vegetation (cropping is not permitted on range area, whilst woodland and authorised livestock grazing is permitted)
o not exceed 150m from the nearest pop-hole - unless sufficient shelters are placed throughout the entire range area and at least four shelters per Ha are provided, whereupon the range area may extend to 350m from the nearest pop-hole
o hens may be confined to their unit for a limited period only during early morning hours to enable good husbandry and farming practice to be maintained."
If you want the source or to read the rest of it, it's here
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../eggs-marketing-legisation-guidance-emr01.pdf

This sort of bureaucracy is also why international trade agreements take so long and so many people to sort out

the photos I posted here https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-26988231 show what all these rules amount to inside and out

 

[ManueB]

I'm looking at the distinct possibility that 3 out of the last 4 eggs that hatched recently are roosters. Patucha's chick Solo has doubled in size in the past week and is taking on all comers, little hackles raised, beady eyes and all.

Six months ago, it was 2 for 2.

If so, it's Roosters 5, Hens 1, so far this year.

Looks like I better get busy on a few more coops.

And get some earplugs.

View attachment 3563144

Are you thinking to keep all 3 cockerels ? Would you be getting more hens, in this case ?

Fez popped his wattles last night (at 1 day short of 5 weeks old) so fwiw, that's confirmation in this single case.

5 out of Léa's 6 chicks had wattles at three weeks and a few days. I was sure we had 5/6 cockerels.
However they are now six weeks and I'm really not so sure for three of them. Their wattles haven't grown, they don't have attitudes like the two that were definitely early cockerels, and there is no difference in feathering yet.
My partner who's an optimist says we have four pullets, I think at best we have two .
We will not be keeping any of the males.

About dogs and chickens : I heard an rather unpleasant story yesterday. I wrote elsewhere about one of my neighbor's dog, a collie, who was over last week at my place with her, and chased broody hen Merle to eat the old and unfertile egg she was sitting on. The neighbour said although their dogs eat eggs, they never touch the chickens.
She had been giving me some hope on my roosters situation, because she also has two, and they had finally decided to coexist peacefully after two years of constant fighting. Yesterday I asked news of her roosters. She was very upset and said another of her dog, a small mutt poodle / terrier, had just killed and eaten the dominant smaller rooster while she was away . According to her, there had been no problem for almost three years between her dogs and her chickens. I'm not a dog person so not sure if it's possible that a dog would just suddenly decide to eat a chicken out of the blue...but hers dogs are definitely not coming over at my place anymore.

I consider that Léa's chicks free range because they are still small enough to cross all of our fences. However I think they actually range on approximately 2.5 acres (which is more than our smaller adult chickens who can also free range) and they spend most of their time in three or four places.

 

[MaryJanet]

Are you thinking to keep all 3 cockerels ? Would you be getting more hens, in this case ?

5 out of Léa's 6 chicks had wattles at three weeks and a few days. I was sure we had 5/6 cockerels.
However they are now six weeks and I'm really not so sure for three of them. Their wattles haven't grown, they don't have attitudes like the two that were definitely early cockerels, and there is no difference in feathering yet.
My partner who's an optimist says we have four pullets, I think at best we have two .
We will not be keeping any of the males.

About dogs and chickens : I heard an rather unpleasant story yesterday. I wrote elsewhere about one of my neighbor's dog, a collie, who was over last week at my place with her, and chased broody hen Merle to eat the old and unfertile egg she was sitting on. The neighbour said although their dogs eat eggs, they never touch the chickens.
She had been giving me some hope on my roosters situation, because she also has two, and they had finally decided to coexist peacefully after two years of constant fighting. Yesterday I asked news of her roosters. She was very upset and said another of her dog, a small mutt poodle / terrier, had just killed and eaten the dominant smaller rooster while she was away . According to her, there had been no problem for almost three years between her dogs and her chickens. I'm not a dog person so not sure if it's possible that a dog would just suddenly decide to eat a chicken out of the blue...but hers dogs are definitely not coming over at my place anymore.

I consider that Léa's chicks free range because they are still small enough to cross all of our fences. However I think they actually range on approximately 2.5 acres (which is more than our smaller adult chickens who can also free range) and they spend most of their time in three or four places.

View attachment 3564281View attachment 3564282View attachment 3564283

I guess that's a pullet looking at the camera in the last photo. Very cute!

 

[Perris]

5 out of Léa's 6 chicks had wattles at three weeks and a few days. I was sure we had 5/6 cockerels.
However they are now six weeks and I'm really not so sure for three of them. Their wattles haven't grown, they don't have attitudes like the two that were definitely early cockerels, and there is no difference in feathering yet.
My partner who's an optimist says we have four pullets, I think at best we have two .
We will not be keeping any of the males.

well, we can only really be sure when they either crow or lay an egg! but to date here the early pink wattle has been a reliable indicator, whatever else does or doesn't show. Young males sometimes (and some of mine have) hide secondary characteristics when they grow up in the presence of adult males, and maybe Gaston's presence and witnessing Theo being chased has turned it on in some of your chicks' cases. Then again, maybe they're pullets!

 

[ManueB]

well, we can only really be sure when they either crow or lay an egg! but to date here the early pink wattle has been a reliable indicator, whatever else does or doesn't show. Young males sometimes (and some of mine have) hide secondary characteristics when they grow up in the presence of adult males, and maybe Gaston's presence and witnessing Theo being chased has turned it on in some of your chicks' cases. Then again, maybe they're pullets!

I do remember Ida, I had no idea such a thing could happen before she /he passed.

 

[BDutch]

Personal definitions are what leads to muddle and confusion and help no-one in the long term. This particular concept ('free range eggs') is covered by egg trading legislation wherever you are (unless you really are in the back of beyond). For information, this is the official DEFRA / APHA guidance currently valid in the UK:

"18.1 Free Range and Barn - internal criteria
Where eggs are to be marketed as Free Range or Barn, the following internal design criteria apply to the units.
(i) There may be additional internal design criteria for certain Organic (Free Range) standards.
(ii) Establishments producing Free Range or Barn eggs, which have less than 350 hens in total, do not need to comply in full with the requirements marked with this symbol: ¥
• Stock density/Usable area - Maximum nine hens per square metre of usable floor area
• Litter - minimum 250sqcm per hen and must cover 1/3rd of the ground surface ¥ (see note above)
• Remaining floor surface - must support hens' forward facing claws on each foot ¥ (see note above)
• Multi-level units - additional levels may contribute to unit capacity where:
o hens are able to move freely between levels
o there are no more than four levels (including the floor) ¥ (see note above)
o headroom above each level is 45cm
o drinking and feeding facilities are distributed to allow equal access for all hens
o levels are arranged to prevent droppings falling on hens below.
• Perching must:
o provide 15cm of perch length per hen
o not be mounted above litter ¥ (see note above)
o be at least 30cm apart horizontally and 20cm from any wall ¥ (see note above)
o have no sharp edges
• Feeders - either
o continuous linear troughs - 10cm length per hen
o circular feeding troughs - 4cm outside length per hen
• Drinkers - either
o continuous troughs - 2.5cm length per hen
o circular drinking troughs - 1cm outside length per hen
o one nipple or cup per ten hens
• Nest boxes - either
o Individual nests - one nest per seven hens
o Group nests - 1sqm of nest space per 120 hens.

18.2 Free Range - external criteria
Where eggs are to be marketed as Free Range the following external criteria apply to the units. There may be additional criteria for certain Organic standards.
• Pop-holes providing access to range must:
o be placed along the entire length of each unit
o be at least 35cm high and 40cm wide
o provide a total opening width of 2m per 1,000 hens.
• Any other fencing or restrictions outside the unit must not inhibit the hens’ ability to access the range area.
• The range area (open air run) provided for hens must:
o be accessible to the hens continuously during daytime
o provide at least 1Ha per 2,500 hens (4sqm per hen) at all times
o where 10m2 per hen is available in total, paddock rotation is permitted when hens have access to the whole available area during their life and at least 1Ha per 4,000 hens (2.5sqm per hen) is provided at any one time
o be mainly covered in vegetation (cropping is not permitted on range area, whilst woodland and authorised livestock grazing is permitted)
o not exceed 150m from the nearest pop-hole - unless sufficient shelters are placed throughout the entire range area and at least four shelters per Ha are provided, whereupon the range area may extend to 350m from the nearest pop-hole
o hens may be confined to their unit for a limited period only during early morning hours to enable good husbandry and farming practice to be maintained."
If you want the source or to read the rest of it, it's here
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../eggs-marketing-legisation-guidance-emr01.pdf

This sort of bureaucracy is also why international trade agreements take so long and so many people to sort out

the photos I posted here https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-26988231 show what all these rules amount to inside and out

I think every country has it’s own definition of free range.
In the Netherlands we say ‘vrije uitloop’ (similar meaning as free range) for chickens that can go outside and have a minimum of 9 chickens on 1 m2 inside and 1 m2 outside for each chicken.
Organic chickens (should) have more space and poison-free feed.

But since HPAI (oktober 2021) its out of the question to free range commercial chickens in an uncovered area (without a roof) . Therefore free range / organic eggs in the supermarket lost some of its meaning. And free range eggs are less available/ more often imported.
There are more systems/labels now with a combination of indoor and covered open air stables were chickens have sand to scratch in and artificial grass to walk on.

 

[Perris]

I think every country has it’s own definition of free range.

that was one of my points; not clearly enough expressed evidently. But the main point is that there are formal definitions at national level and people should know what applies where they live; how Joe Bloggs (i.e. an individual) defines it is irrelevant.

The EU re-definition of 'free range' since last winter's H5N1 makes a complete mockery of the term and wouldn't look out of place in Orwell's 1984. Egg producers here have been campaigning for a similar redefinition, without success so far (thankfully).

 

[BDutch]

@Shadrach , sounds great you can move close to family and the allotment soon! Congrats.

Do you know the residence? Is it a flat too? And about the same size, costs and comfort?

In the meantime Im waiting on more good news. Hope you can get your hands on a few ‘fresh’ ex Batts soon. Its so sad you only have just 3 chickens to care for now.

Just an idea: do they have the hybrid type Blue de landes in England too? These hybrids are quit common in Belgium. The hens are a bit bigger as the white and brown laying machines. And would be a great fit with Henri.

 

[Molpet]

@TropicalChickies I hear bird flu in Brazil wild birds
https://www.poultryworld.net/health...m4tsnxlYD3v2BLg&mlnmsg=AUerv-2C5lQ6PJWDcH5LiQ

 

[MROO]

On the “ranging” topic from a few pages back: The instructor at a chicken class at our farmers co-op 3 years ago included a few presentation slides on terminology. Not sure where his definitions were from, but he said, under no uncertain terms, free ranging means roaming with zero fences.

He would've called my setup "pastured": there's significantly more freedom than a coop run (8K sq ft) but with fences. In that case, I suppose people ranging without pasture could call their chickens forested, or jungled.

In reality, as I swing open the wide gate to their electric-protected yard each morning, I'm reminded of the work camps in Grapes of Wrath (or maybe their little dust bowls keep bringing up this imagery). While I'd prefer not to be responsible for setting their boundaries, I know they still get a ton of exercise. Not to mention a healthy degree of existential excitement, ducking raptors and dodging copperheads and other wildlife not deterred by fencing.

And hunting June bugs! I pity the beetles who cross Donna's path. She lives for this time of year. Tax. Pardon her dustbath booty and the shaggy grass. I asked DH not to mow this area until the baby bunnies are big enough to hop away (2 rabbit families take advantage of chicken-yard protections as well).

Donna hunts rain or shine. The others enjoy beetles but also the shade of the coop run on hot afternoons, so I went beetle hunting with a spare waterer and made a "treat" dispenser. I do feel kinda bad for the June bugs and Japanese beetles, but they’re invasive and sucking the life out of our fruit trees.

OhMaGosh - I LOVE the treat dispenser idea! I have Japanese beetles all over my raspberries, I've been collecting them and turning them loose in the coop - but the girls go into a frenzy and many beetles escape. A "bug waterer" will be a GREAT boredom buster for all of us!