Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[MrsNorthie]

I find it odd that some people have faith in the science that suggests that commercial feed may have some shortfalls but not the same science that suggests in this case, commercial feed provides adequate nutrition.

I am not sure that I doubt that the commercial feed provides adequate nutrition, I am just not sure that it is optimal nutrition and I am not confident that availability will be reliable. We have seen disruptions to supply lines or that the feed won't start hitting arm and leg prices or that I won't lose my job, it is a risk to be completely dependent on things that you can't source locally and affordably. (Besides the fact that my government seems intent on starting WWIII..) The theory is, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

With whole grains, I can stock up and if stored properly, they can be stored for a really long time and I have the luxury of space to store a lot and can keep it dry and air tight, for a really long time and with the right combination, we aren't compromising on nutrition. https://commongrains.com/how-long-can-you-store-whole-grains-or-flours-a-reference-chart/

If things really get bad, we can grow enough of certain essential food items locally, to make sure my chickens stay healthy and as comfortable as possible. (and everything in life is now centered on serving my animals in the quality and luxury that they demand. lol.) I am already working on a plan to raise mealworms, too, because heaven forbid, we can't get their favourite crunchy snacks. https://www.epicgardening.com/how-to-raise-mealworms/

 

[Shadrach]

well the only one you've cited to support the idea that there's no measurable benefit (is that the same as 'insufficient evidence', which was the phrase cited in the conclusion?) concerns non-dairy fermented feed, kimchi and suchlike, written by people who have received benefits from the processed dairy foods industry. (The only dairy product they included was kefir, for which they did find evidence of beneficial effects.) Can you give the refs for the other 'similar studies', ideally ones written by people independent of the food industry, and ones which don't basically say we don't know the effect on the human/chicken biome and we need to do more research on it?

I'll have a look for the studies I read when I first started fermenting some years ago. None of the studies deny the measurable changes in the feed. What is contested is the measurable benefits to health. Yes there may well be an increase in bioavailability for example but does that translate to an increase in overall health? Of course it is easy to assume more of this and better that will provide an increase in overall health but is it measurable and repeatable?

 

[no fly zone]

are you implying I'm cherry-picking 'the science'?

First, I have not, I think, actually done that. Second, commercial feed provides adequate nutrition only under the terms of its aims, which is why the methodology of the studies should not be ignored. They aim to maximise output at minimal cost, and the 'science' is performed usually on birds that are not normal - they're either days old chicks, or birds that have had their caeca removed surgically before the 'trials' in order to simplify the results and their interpretation, and/or the feed trials are performed on Nth generation severely selected lab strains of birds that once upon a time were chickens of the sort that you and I look after.


This is an important caveat. It would be interesting to know many people reading this thread keep modern high production breeds. I know it started as a thread about ex- commercial birds aka rescues, but most people who post photos seem to have some or all heritage breeds or backyard mutts, both of which were capable of laying c. 150-200 eggs a year a hundred and fifty years ago, long before commercial feed appeared on the shelves of shops.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-many-eggs-were-laid-by-hens-150-years-ago.1593024/
At least, I haven't noticed anyone here posting about their hens laying 300+ eggs per annum, which is what modern layers feed is presumably designed for, if I've understood your point aright.

I believe Skeksis was hitting about 300 eggs a year her first two years of laying. She slowed down slighty after that, then only laid a handful (mostly soft shelled) her last 8 months of life.

 

[Perris]

I'll have a look for the studies I read when I first started fermenting some years ago. None of the studies deny the measurable changes in the feed. What is contested is the measurable benefits to health. Yes there may well be an increase in bioavailability for example but does that translate to an increase in overall health? Of course it is easy to assume more of this and better that will provide an increase in overall health but is it measurable and repeatable?

I look forward to reading them. If I recall aright you were fermenting commercial feed then, and there is very little, if any, benefit to fermenting in that case; perhaps that influenced your views? The substrate matters.

 

[Ladies-Eight]

Ex Batts good morning one and all!

Temperature is in the 70s with fog..

Have a great day!

 

[Perris]

I believe Skeksis was hitting about 300 eggs a year her first two years of laying. She slowed down slighty after that, then only laid a handful (mostly soft shelled) her last 8 months of life.

did you keep records?

 

[Molpet]

I believe Skeksis was hitting about 300 eggs a year her first two years of laying. She slowed down slighty after that, then only laid a handful (mostly soft shelled) her last 8 months of life.

It's so hard on them.
I had 3 red production hens that laid an egg every day . During molting 2 missed 2 eggs. None lived to see their 2nd birthday

 

[fuzzi]

Appreciating the discussion, especially the civility.

 

[Shadrach]

Meanwhile in the real world it's been below freezing all morning and I've been up and out since 6am. One thing that is quite apparent is the allotment chickens are eating less by dry weight of feed when given fermented feed. This is not what I want. It's not a bit less, it's around 40 percent less. I know because I weigh the feed I take them when dry and when fermented. It also shows in the amount of droppings in the coop. I'm going to do dry feed only next week and see what happens.

 

[Sally PB]

Appreciating the discussion, especially the civility.

Me too. Thank you.