Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

Sorry if you have said before but do you know how much he weighs? He looks massive in pictures. As well as being quite handsome of course.

I haven't weighed Henry yet, but the look is not deceiving. he's a big chap.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I've always taken it to mean the more down fluff, the more cold resistant (besides NNs, but they're just strange). Like Cornish and modern games aren't cold hardy because they barely have any fluff under their outer feathers

I read a lot of stuff on breeds that are reputed to be cold tolerant. What exactly does this mean? Who states this and how was it tested?
I haven’t noticed the chickens I’ve seen adding an extra layer of fat for insulation, or growing a different type of feather. Husky dogs for example have a different type of hair that acts as a much better insulator than that of most other breeds. I’ve seen no evidence that this has happened to chickens.

Did those who “tested” the cold hardiness of the chicken just go by the fact that some didn’t die and that some were therefore cold hardy?

One factor must be that a breed kept in cold conditions learns how to cope with it and their chicks, assuming natural hatching etc, learn how to cope with it as well. After many generations that breed that has been bred in those conditions will, one assumes, learn to adapt to them.

However, if that breed which is supposed to be cold hardy is imported from a hot zone to a cold zone what evidence is there that they are any better at coping with the cold than any other breed from a hot zone?

My Finnish friend who is trying to repopulate land race breeds in his area tells me it has take many generations for the land race breeds he is interested in to acclimatize to the winter conditions where he lives.

There seems to be a great misunderstanding of the purpose of chicken feathers and ask on most forums and you’ll be told that chickens don’t get cold because they have all those lovely feathers to keep them warm. There seems to be some ignorance regarding thermo regulation and the role the chickens feathers play in it.

Today's chickens are all descendants of the jungle fowl. Jungle fowl haven’t changed very much since they evolved from what I’ve read. The last jungle I went to was pretty warm and I haven’t read anything that states they got any colder since. Indonesian jungle is just one example of where there are jungle fowl but the link below has average temperatures and humidity information.

https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/indonesia

Try as I might, I can’t see anywhere where it gets anything close to freezing, or even cold come to that.

So what on earth does the chicken think it’s doing evolving with all those lovely feathers to keep it warm?

Well, those feathers do in fact help keep it cool. Chickens like many other creatures have the ability to manipulate their feathers to allow air flow close to the skin. The outer feathers, if they are in direct sunlight for a time, or in the rain can be lifted to provide a layer of protection while air circulates under that layer. More then one layer of protection from the heat is THE way to keep cool, keeping cool is not achieved by taking off all your layers and getting your skin burnt. I know it seems obvious but.

In Catalonia where temperatures could be 35 Centigrade to 40 centigrade plus in the hottest summer months the chicken made for their favourite shade spots. These were in general bushes under tree cover. This must be the closest to a jungle environment they could find. The sun shines on the tree tops and if tree cover is sparse, on the tops of the bushes but doesn’t reach the ground where the chickens are. Add to this that any breeze blows through the trees and the bushes cooling the foliage above them. I’ve sat under a few with them and I can tell you, the chickens know a thing or two about keeping cool.

Even in my house, which was reasonably cool even on the hottest days, the chickens would head for the bushes in preference.

Insulation works both ways; not only does it keep heat in, it also keeps heat out. The chickens feathers act as insulation, but they are designed to keep heat out rather than keep heat in.

There is no such thing as a perfect insulator. They all have a thermal gradient. The slope of the gradient in most cases is dependent on the temperatures either side of the insulator material. Basically the colder it gets on the sink side (the cold side) the steeper the gradient. The steeper the gradient the faster heat is transferred from the source to the sink (hot side to cold side. You have to do work to reverse this process)

It’s like a house with a fire burning in it. You have to put more fuel on the fire the colder it gets to maintain the temperature in the house. Chicken and other warm blooded creatures work on the same principle.

A chickens core body temperature is 41 Centigrade, a little higher than ours. In order to maintain that temperature they need to burn fuel (food). What can also be done to reduce the fuel demand is to increase the effectiveness of any insulation between the heat source and the outside.

Ducks for example have feathers that trap the air as well as being water resistant. This is in part what makes them be able to swim and stay warm. Chickens feathers are not like ducks and if they get soaked and cold they go hyperthermic very easily and in deep water a soaked chicken is likely to drown if the cold doesn’t kill them first.

It’s not looking good for the cold hardy chicken breed statements so far.

Back to the Ex Battery chickens at the allotment. What is going to keep them warm is food and for Ex Batts in particular who are likely to have up to half or less of the normal chickens feathers in place on arrival food is vital. As winter approaches many of these Ex Batts not only have their first major moult, they are also trying to regrow the feathers that got plucked out at the batteries. They need extra food. In fact, they need feed available all the time. Ideally they need feed at 20% protein content and above and extra fats and carbohydrates to generate heat.

I’ve yet to read any instructions regarding this from the rescue organisations. Not have a I read anything about what type of accommodation is suitable for Ex Batts who have absolutely no cold tolerance because the batteries are always warm just through having say five thousands chickens in a confined source each giving off about 12 watts.

There is no chicken that is cold hardy that hasn’t been hatched in a cold environment and become acclimatised to it. All breeds apart from hard feathered game fowl have the same type of feathers and operate on the same principle as any other chicken. The simple fact is they just tolerate the cold because they have no alternative. In order for any chicken to be cold hardy it would have to have undergone some physiological transformation that those who are considered not cold hardy hadn’t.

I’ve yet to see any evidence of this.

Most days when I’ve arrived at the allotments there has been no feed in the feeder. The coop isn’t remotely warm which is why they huddle together as you can see in the pictures. I’ve watched some evenings as they rotate those on the outside of these huddles to the inside so they all get warm. There is enough space for them to spread out more; not a lot more, but they use about two thirds of the available space from what I’ve seen.

If chickens are well fed, healthy, have a full set of feathers and dry. they can tolerate cold conditions quite well. Ex Batts have none of these advantages.

 

[Sortacountrychicken]

My chickens experience some pretty brutally low temperatures. The most extreme frostbite I have seen caused by air exposure is for the tips to be lost off of a comb. This was in temperatures around -30 degrees Fahrenheit. When wind chill is factored in, it was a few degrees colder. I have seen much more dramatic frostbite on two of my older hens. They both decided to wet their feet in their water and one decided to dunk her comb as well. I didn't find the frostbite until after the damage had been done. Both hens are now missing toes and the one lost most of her comb. Despite all this, the hen with the biggest comb in my flock has been untouched by frostbite. She was raised on a farm that experiences even worse weather than I do here.

Many people that I have talked to consider a cold hardy bird to be a bird that is large (10 lbs or so), has a small style of comb, and very loose feathering (think Brahmas and such). The only birds that I have that come remotely close to that size are the hatchery chicks from this spring. Most of my birds also have medium sized single combs. I have never lost a bird to the cold. This past winter, our southern states got a taste of northern style winter and it devastated the livestock. I read many stories of people loosing breeds that wouldn't bat an eye at those temperatures around here. In fact, all kinds of livestock suffered deaths through the cold. They simply are not adjusted to those kinds of temperatures. Although some traits may allow individuals to adapt to warmer or cooler temperatures, chicks hatched from the environment that they will live in are the ones that do the best in my experience.

Example:
This is Sylvia. She has the biggest comb and wattles in my flock. She is also one of the hardest molters in my flock which I believe is related to a genetic mishap that cause her feathers to shred. Here she is last November, in full molt. Temperatures at this time are probably right around freezing, maybe slightly above, during the day and are about 15-20 degrees Fahrenheit at night. The battery hen behind her is in full molt as well. She barely cared.

Here she is this spring. She has a bit of dry skin but is otherwise untouched in the head gear. As a side note, you can see her feather are beginning to shred over her saddle and down her neck. Her feathers are about 5 months old here. By July she will look horrible again.

 

[Geckolady]

Sadly not true. I started having a full on asthma attack while in a dermatologist’s office. I had left my inhaler at home. She refused to prescribe me an inhaler which is a very standard treatment. I walked out and went to the emergency room where the first nurse who saw me at the entrance handed me one.

I was treated by a veterinarian once, believe it or not! But this was over 35 years ago, and maybe they weren't as strict about such things.

I was in Phoenix during the summer (hot) and was trying to adjust something in the engine compartment of my car, which had been running for hours, so the engine was really hot. I got my hand caught and couldn't get it out right away. I burned it, and knew I needed an ice pack NOW. There was a vet's office right across the street. I ran over there and they treated me for the burn and gave me an ice pack. They were nice about it and didn't even charge me for the materials, because they said they weren't really supposed to treat humans, but could not refuse to help me because if they were ever in the same position, they would want help. I didn't live in Phoenix at the time, or I would have used their services for my animals after that, because that is the type of people a person needs around them.

OK, now for tax. Here is Gabriel at 3 weeks, two days (first picture) and again a few weeks later.

 

[pennyJo1960]

Frostbite as I was taught has to do in part to ventilation in coop. And number of birds.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Oh he kinda looks like my boy Romero! But lankier and with more cream.

View attachment 2916471View attachment 2916472

Here's Crispy critter and HawkBait, two of my less capible pullets for tax

I'm loving this tax system. Best system I've ever seen for keeping a thread on track. And oops! Now I owe tax again. Requesting an extension till tomorrow, though, can't get a pic until then.

 

[Ladies-Eight]

Welcome to the thread @Ladies-Eight

Thanks.

This thread will be very helpful to a lot of us who have not been keeping chickens as long as some of you.

 

[MaryJanet]

I always thought cold tolerant was to do with big floppy combs and frostbite rather than feathers or fat. But I have no idea really.

Hmmm you've got me pondering if there's no ontological connection between heat tolerance and cold tolerance (sorry for being a massive nerd everyone).

Tax for getting distracted by the way humans think about things.

 

[pennyJo1960]

I believe Shad has added to what I learned many years ago from Grandma then Dad. Leaning the rest of the story here .
My tax three young banty pullets

 

[Geckolady]

Thanks.

This thread will be very helpful to a lot of us who have not been keeping chickens as long as some of you.

This thread may end up as one of the longest threads on the site. Look how far it's gotten in only a few days.