Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[MaryJanet]

So, here's a question for people to think about.

Was Mr Young right and battery hens are not proper chickens?
If he was right, given their breeding, the fact they are hatched in their millions in incubators, have never aquired the skills and knowledge that broody reared, free range chickens do, are never likely to reproduce naturally.
Could they ever learn how to be proper chickens, particulalry given they have such short life spans in which to learn given the opportunity?

It's hard to say. In optimal conditions and in the company of other chickens who know what they're doing, I'd suggest it's possible but I can't mount a strong argument for that suggestion, only that in behavioural matters, context is a huge driver.

 

[MaryJanet]

Tax

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Lovely photos!!

 

[MaryJanet]

Is someone who was/is severely abused (or, may I add with respect, those who are considered mentally handicapped/disabled) not considered a person? They may act and behave differently and never live a "normal" life, but does that make them considered any less of a person?
Of course, this question assumes anthropomorphic thinking.

As for me, I believe they are true chickens, even if they were put into an environment that was not conducive to learning what we consider proper chicken behaviors. At their core, they are chickens.
Could they learn true chicken behaviors? I don't believe they all have the ability to fully overcome what they learned. You are always going to see some of those traits. Some will be better than others and "recover" better, but on average, I don't personally believe they can learn a whole new set of skills. Why? I couldn't tell you. Genetics? Because they are animals and not "sophisticated" humans? Some other reason? A combination of all the above? I'm not sure.

I must admit, I did not take the "are they really chickens" question seriously because I thought it was a provocation. I took it for granted they are indeed chickens (but they've been deprived of opportunities to thrive).

 

[Shadrach]

"Don't know what those hens fuss about. This broody business is easy"

 

[pennyJo1960]

I do hope you're planning on staying around. You've got some interesting observations and better knowledge than I have on Ex Batt behaviour.
I'm pretty much working on theory and most likely extrapolation from little experience.
This lot wander despite Henry's best efforts. He knows he should be keeping the group together but 20 hens for one rooster is a lot to keep in order. He hasn't had that much practice either so I've been surprised how quickly he's picked up on what he should be doing.

I am curious how did Henry make it to there is the birds are x batts? Please?

 

[Shadrach]

As far as the breeding part, to find out you might hatch some eggs from them and see how their offspring behave compared to free range chickens. Then you could tell which skills are learned.

A lot of hatchery hens are Leghorns. My Leghorns are from a breeder, not a hatchery. They don't go after mice, but the Dorkings do. Is there something genetic there, or do they just realize that they are smaller and a mouse might get stuck in their throat? Would ignoring mice and letting the Dorkings get them make them less proper chickens in his eyes?

I think that is the route I would go.
I would see if a "proper" hen would sit on some EX battery hen's eggs if the Ex Battery hens didn't show any interest,

 

[Shadrach]

It is easier to treat a fellow creature badly if you don't think of them as quite at the level of a sentient being.

Exactly.

 

[Shadrach]

I am not sure I have the emotional fortitude to get into this. What is the definition of a 'proper chicken'? And if they don't exhibit all the characteristics of a proper chicken (which I might imagine include things like predator awareness, raising young, foraging) does that mean it is OK to lock them up in awful conditions?
Even if they are 'less than' chickens in the eyes of whoever decides these things I still think they deserve to be treated with respect and given the chance to lead a full life to their ability.
But I am fully aware I am a hypocrite because I don't feel the same about the bugs I feed my own chickens.
Anyone who wants to really bend their mind around this question would do well to read Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro (incidentally a British author). It is a novel and not about chickens but speaks directly to the question Shad asked and is a very good read.
Shutting up now.

I'll check it out.

 

[Shadrach]

I think the reason 'Why' is that all creatures have windows of development. You miss the window to acquire a skill and you will likely never learn it properly if exposed to it later in life.
For language, both verbal and body, this has been shown to be true; also with social skills. I can attest to that with my nephew who is very socially awkward at 31 as he was never exposed to children his age until he entered kindergarten and by then he hadn't learned how to properly behave around others.
If the same could be said for these ex batts, I would think the ex batts integrated into a flock of "normal" chickens may be slightly better off recovering than those that are not. Offspring from those birds may express more typical chicken behaviors sooner having had "normal" chickens around to teach the ex batts.

And therin lies some of my objections to incubating eggs in a machine.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

"Don't know what those hens fuss about. This broody business is easy"
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Oh I'm so jealous of his comb