Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[HiEverybirdy]

@Perris , a friend of mine is fermenting crumble and gives a portion of this to her chickens daily.
I told her fermenting whole wheats (grain mix) is more beneficial. But she doesn’t believe me and I didn’t have a good explanation why fermenting crumble has no/very little extra value compared to fermenting whole grains.

Do you have a reference or written explanation why fermenting whole grains is better than fermenting crumble? I couldn’t find it.

Isn't "fermented" crumble just wet crumble?

 

[Mother of Chaos]

Isn't "fermented" crumble just wet crumble?

When it's fermented, it's more than dampened. It actually goes through a bit of a chemical change over several days via fermentation, which often changes the bioavailability of the ingredients. That's what it works so well on whole-grain feeds - it can make the seed shells more digestible. Processed chicken feed in the form of pellets or crumbles has ground down the ingredients to where they don't need fermentation to release them.

I'm not writing this well, lol. Think of the difference between milk (not fermented) and yogurt (fermented.)

 

[fuzzi]

One more in the incubator, zipping slowly. If it hatches successfully I will add it to the brooder tonight.

"Back OFF, Mister!"

Safe in their brooder, the same one Rahab used last year.

 

[HiEverybirdy]

Processed chicken feed in the form of pellets or crumbles has ground down the ingredients to where they don't need fermentation to release them.

Exactly, so if crumble is what I'm thinking – commercial feed pellets crushed into crumbles – I was thinking it would be like fermenting cornflakes. First mush, then mold Ain't nobirdy got time for that.

 

[Perris]

It actually goes through a bit of a chemical change over several days via fermentation,

When I fed commercial feed I tried this (in 2018 to be precise) and can confirm some chemical changes took place, because it stank to the rafters. I even took a photo of it

but I have yet to find a decent source on what exactly happens to processed feed when wetted and left for days

which often changes the bioavailability of the ingredients

would you care to share a source for this?

Processing to make commercial chicken feed does not just grind up whole grains and make their contents available; it also involves heating, sometimes micronizing, sometimes various other processes, some of which destroy nutrients in the grain, rather than make them available to whatever eats it. That's why they have to add back some of the vitamins and minerals, just like with kids' cereals, which manufacturers then claim are 'fortified' with this, that or the other. They are required by law - here at least - to put back what their processing procedures destroyed.

 

[SimpleJenn]

This is the field out back (forest behind that) and then the "windbreak" chunk of woods directly behind our coops. Hopefully the free rangers will use this area instead of sitting on our porch all day, haha.
Hoping to level the ground and move the building over in the next couple days, and then I am selling some pullets to buy hardware cloth to line the inside where the floor and wall meet.


I know that the way of the chicken will be to sit on the porch, tear up the garden, even go to my parent's house next door...but I can at least dream of them using these woods and field areas.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

When I fed commercial feed I tried this (in 2018 to be precise) and can confirm some chemical changes took place, because it stank to the rafters. I even took a photo of it
View attachment 4177381
but I have yet to find a decent source on what exactly happens to processed feed when wetted and left for days

would you care to share a source for this?

Processing to make commercial chicken feed does not just grind up whole grains and make their contents available; it also involves heating, sometimes micronizing, sometimes various other processes, some of which destroy nutrients in the grain, rather than make them available to whatever eats it. That's why they have to add back some of the vitamins and minerals, just like with kids' cereals, which manufacturers then claim are 'fortified' with this, that or the other. They are required by law - here at least - to put back what their processing procedures destroyed.

**Edit to add** - don't forget, I feed commercial whole-grain feed. I would never bother with this with processed pellets, etc.

Dealing with a little crisis (I'm head of our church's Building and Grounds committee, and our commercial fridge/freezer has just rolled over and died 2 days before annual church picnic), but here's one:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10051273/

I haven't had time to read it (I'm supposed to be in my online class), but here's a sentence from the abstract: "The processing of vegetables, including microbial fermentation, reduces or neutralizes tannins and phytates, which results in greater bioavailability of vitamins and minerals."

I'll read the full article after putting out this little fire.

 

[Perris]

**Edit to add** - don't forget, I feed commercial whole-grain feed. I would never bother with this with processed pellets, etc.

Dealing with a little crisis (I'm head of our church's Building and Grounds committee, and our commercial fridge/freezer has just rolled over and died 2 days before annual church picnic), but here's one:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10051273/

I haven't had time to read it (I'm supposed to be in my online class), but here's a sentence from the abstract: "The processing of vegetables, including microbial fermentation, reduces or neutralizes tannins and phytates, which results in greater bioavailability of vitamins and minerals."

I'll read the full article after putting out this little fire.

I've read plenty on fermenting real foods. It's papers on the effects of fermenting of an already processed feed that I lack.

So much confusion arises from people not distinguishing clearly exactly what feed they are talking about; processed or unprocessed. I think that what you feed would be called 'scratch' by a lot of people on BYC, and regarded as a 'treat', OK for up to 10% of their diet, not more. I think that's nonsense, fwiw.

 

[thistlewick]

I've read plenty on fermenting real foods. It's papers on the effects of fermenting of an already processed feed that I lack.

So much confusion arises from people not distinguishing clearly exactly what feed they are talking about; processed or unprocessed. I think that what you feed would be called 'scratch' by a lot of people on BYC, and regarded as a 'treat', OK for up to 10% of their diet, not more. I think that's nonsense, fwiw.

It's because of the fat and starch content of scratch that is made here -- people who have culled chickens who eat only scratch find that their birds are FULL of fat deposits that birds on standard feed don't accumulate. There was a whole thread here about it, I would need to find it/dig it up. It's an old one. But it showed the comparison pics.

Hell, some people feed 8% protein cracked corn because it's cheap as hell. I have no idea WHAT those birds look like or what their eggs look like, but yeah it is the 'main' feed that is offered in places like Tractor Supply.

I have Roosters and babies and pullets and hens all together so I feed a 20% all flock -- and even though my birds get massive amounts of natural protein from bugs and forage and all that good stuff, I am still super glad I provide enough protein for all their needs.

 

[fuzzi]

It's because of the fat and starch content of scratch that is made here -- people who have culled chickens who eat only scratch find that their birds are FULL of fat deposits that birds on standard feed don't accumulate. There was a whole thread here about it, I would need to find it/dig it up. It's an old one. But it showed the comparison pics.

Hell, some people feed 8% protein cracked corn because it's cheap as hell. I have no idea WHAT those birds look like or what their eggs look like, but yeah it is the 'main' feed that is offered in places like Tractor Supply.

I have Roosters and babies and pullets and hens all together so I feed a 20% all flock -- and even though my birds get massive amounts of natural protein from bugs and forage and all that good stuff, I am still super glad I provide enough protein for all their needs.

I feed the starter/grower crumbles to my whole flock. It's about 18% protein. I offer egg/oyster shells on the side. New chicks get crumble mash to help them get more fluids, and prevent pastybutt.