Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Perris]

What I'm after is as wider range of foodstuffs as I can manage to supply

Yes, this is what moulting birds need above all.

 

[Labsandchickens8]

One upshot of Raubenheimer and Simpson's work on nutritional geometry is that excess protein, in particular methionine, shortens lifespans.

Oh no. How much is excess?
This is what I'm afraid of.

 

[Perris]

Found it. Not sure if this was what I had read before. The study itself is about fish meal and peanuts but the introductory paragraphs and the conclusions all support Stormcrow’s guidance that going into the 30% range on protein is unnecessary!
https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com/776861/1-s2.0-S0032579119X61994/1-s2.0-S0032579119381106/main.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=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&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20250830T125704Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAQ3PHCVTYU5FTCGPO/20250830/us-east-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=f9ec8e84fe056066692bbae140e18f74e53be46f7ad1e7de0f3d8b44331bc9b0&hash=84c105b087fc09ee8c634cd7090ec5a7048efeee7653fb6bd640bea72cce15d5&host=68042c943591013ac2b2430a89b270f6af2c76d8dfd086a07176afe7c76c2c61&pii=S0032579119381106&tid=spdf-d296ba35-52be-4e79-ba18-97594513ffd1&sid=fe45c3808eee554f00196537ab567961f4ccgxrqa&type=client&tsoh=d3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkaXJlY3QuY29t&rh=d3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkaXJlY3QuY29t&ua=0f155a5058535052015607&rr=977473a8eb371dcc&cc=us

that paper is as old as we are! Not that that alone counts against it of course. But ordinarily scientific papers published in 1966 are considered superannuated; quite a lot of changes in data and understanding have occurred in our lifetimes.

 

[Shadrach]

It is worth bearing in mind that any creature that needs more of any nutritional component can just eat more of everything/anything and achieve the same result as providing a feed with a higher content of whatever one/they feel is in shortage.
I can eat X proportion of Z at a particular percentage of Z or I can eat X+ proportion of Z and achieve the same higher result for Z.

 

[RoyalChick]

that paper is as old as we are! Not that ago alone counts against it of course. But ordinarily scientific papers published in 1966 are considered superannuated; quite a lot of changes in data and understanding have occurred in our lifetimes.

Superannuated. Just like me!

 

[Perris]

Oh no. How much is excess?
This is what I'm afraid of.

You're asking for specifics that don't exist (yet). The finding is the result of plotting amount eaten by length of life across numerous individuals and species (none of them chickens, in the studies cited). But it's way over what's included in a typical chicken's diet - of the order 30-50% protein ranges - so I think you do not need to worry about it.

 

[Perris]

It is worth bearing in mind that any creature that needs more of any nutritional component can just eat more of everything/anything and achieve the same result as providing a feed with a higher content of whatever one/they feel is in shortage.
I can eat X proportion of Z at a particular percentage of Z or I can eat X+ proportion of Z and achieve the same higher result for Z.

that works for the macro nutrients, but not essential micronutrients (vitamins and minerals). They have to be consumed because the animal cannot synthesize them from other components in the diet.

 

[Labsandchickens8]

You're asking for specifics that don't exist (yet). The finding is the result of plotting amount eaten by length of life across numerous individuals and species (none of them chickens, in the studies cited). But it's way over what's included in a typical chicken's diet - of the order 30-50% protein ranges - so I think you do not need to worry about it.

Thank you! I'm like a new parent of a human baby, reading all the time and imagining all kinds of illnesses.
Actually I might have been more relaxed when raising children because I was so tired

 

[thistlewick]

Not in my case. I estimate I spend double what the average BYC member spends feeding the field chickens.View attachment 4207909 What I'm after is as wider range of foodstuffs as I can manage to supply.

In the UK and in much of the rest of the world the standard layer feed falls between 16% protein and 12% protein. I haven't read anything that suggest the chickens in the above regions are starving to death due to the lack of protein.

The high protein thing is as far as I can see based and disseminated from the USA.

The US layer feeds are anywhere from 8-16% and the "all flock" is 20% and that is rare, because hardly anyone keeps roosters, it's tucked away off the mainline advertised feeds.

The 8-16% layer feeds are produced simply because that's what industrial farming practices produce. It is "what's been done" to spend as little as possible on overhead to have an egg laying hen produce. We ALL know how industrial practices are horrible for health. Why would the food they produce be considered healthy or adequate? I think this is precisely what Perris is talking about.

Before industrial practices were invented, chickens foraged and ate kitchen scraps, free ranged all day, were not cooped and were a lot less fat than today's chickens.

I'm guessing we want our backyard chickens to lay eggs every day, so we gorge them on chicken feed to make sure they can produce an egg every day.

I bet if I just let my chickens forage for their food every day like a natural, wild bird, they'd lay a LOT less. But they wouldn't starve.

 

[Perris]

I bet if I just let my chickens forage for their food every day like a natural, wild bird, they'd lay a LOT less.

You might be surprised. I've collected 1471 eggs so far this year, and that excludes those laid off base e.g. Janeka's 3 secret nests.
Edited to add: they don't live just on forage of course. But you wouldn't leave your birds just to forage either would you?