Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

That means knowing how others react to the two words (versus how you react to them) should matter.
Personally I attach very few connotations to the word flock. To me it is a word used to describe a group often but not always of birds. It also doesn’t (for me) imply anything about social interactions or living conditions.
Birds may live in a flock or just flock together to migrate. People flock to the latest fad.
I am sure by now you and everyone else is getting irritated at my semantic pedantry and I will go out and visit my chickens armed with a pot of blueberries.
Maybe interesting to know google struggles with the word flock too.
Flock is translated to ‘kudde’. We use ‘kudde’ for mammals like cows (cattle), goats, sheep and a group of horses (but not in front of a carriage). So google should translate ‘kudde’ to herd. But it only does so in a context.

For chickens we use the word ‘toom’.
A ‘toom’ is the name for a group of birds belonging to the duck family or gallinaceous family, or for a litter of piglets. Google translates ‘een toom chickens’ to ‘a flock of chickens’. But translating it from English to Dutch it uses the word for herd.

Diving into wikipedia I started to wonder why @Shadrach choose the word tribe (only for humans) and didnt choose the word herd giving sn alternative word. Herd seems to describe the way chickens live in the wild better than tribe imo. Of course the numbers/groups of chickens are much smaller in general. Not everything fits.

A herd is
a group of mammals that live together. A herd offers the animals protection. While some animals graze peacefully, others keep watch. It's much harder for a predator to attack a herd than a single animal. And if a predator does manage to snatch an animal, the rest can flee while the unlucky one is eaten.

If an animal ends up outside the herd, it's doomed. Therefore, the strategy of predators is often to isolate a single animal, preferably a young, old, or weak one, from the herd. This can be done, for example, by placing itself between the prey and the rest of the herd.
There is a hierarchy within a herd. There is one clear leader. This can be a male or a female; this depends on the species. Young animals are always at the bottom of the hierarchy. Often, the largest and strongest animals are placed at the edge of the herd, while the young animals, who need the most protection, must remain in the center.
Keeping livestock herds was an important step in human development: instead of having to hunt animals for meat, it became possible to keep the meat nearby. Herding livestock in herds was a step in the domestication of animals.


The term tribe
is used in many different contexts to refer to a category of humansocial group. The predominant worldwide use of the term in English is in the discipline of anthropology. The definition is contested, in part due to conflicting theoretical understandings of social and kinship structures, and also reflecting the problematic application of this concept to extremely diverse human societies. Its concept is often contrasted by anthropologists with other social and kinship groups, being hierarchically larger than a lineage or clan, but smaller than a chiefdom, ethnicity, nation or state. These terms are similarly disputed. In some cases tribes have legal recognition and some degree of political autonomy from national or federal government, but this legalistic usage of the term may conflict with anthropological definitions.
 
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My unsolicited two cents about the term flock vs tribe is that chickens act more like a tribe even in the anthropological sense than they do a herd. At least mine do. They often forage in small groups or individually then sleep in the same coop. Tribe implies a fluidity in structure and range (individual chickens have multiple options for mating, roosting, and foraging area) to me that flock or herd does not. I think you could call a free range group of a chickens a tribe but that word would be a stretch for a confined group of suburban chickens so you might as well call those a flock.

I’ve had free range chickens for less than a year (not including my free range city-farm chickens when I started out) and certainly don’t sit around and observe them often. I observe them more on camera or out the window. So at least I know there’s no Hawthorne effect. 😆 I’ll go back to the peanut gallery now.
 
Communication is confounded when we use terms that mean different things to different people. The more baggage a term has, the more alternative readings it carries simultaneously. That leads to confusion not clarity.
Seriously?:lol:
So, I can't use the term tribe because some people have socially constructed views of tribe, meaning some lesser race or species, even though it is an accurate description of my own observations and those of the numerous studies on the subject.

Sticking to the jungle fowl for a moment.
Every study I've read has at least got this observation in common; jungle fowl live in distinct groups rather than one large group in a relatively small area. It's not like the studied areas locate these groups miles apart.
The areas studied are a few acres usually. The bigger the area the more of these discrete groups are recorded.
There are variations in stocking density by group but most studies observe group territory being between an acre and two per group.
The field is an acre for an example. if there were chickens in the next field or the field after that the chickens in one field would be aware of the chickens in the next field, much as the jungle fowl are aware of other groups in their locality.
Apparently these distinct groups when it comes to jungle fowl don't merge into one large group despite not have any physical boundaries to prevent them doing so.

Why is this?
 
it is an accurate description
logical problem: how can it be accurate if the meaning of the term is not even agreed? I don't understand why you are so committed to the word, especially given your emphasis on the small size and the evident transience of the groups of chickens in question. Surely 'family' would fit better if want to emphasise familiarity.

Nor what your problem is with flock. Why don't you want to use it? What is everyone else in poultry studies using it getting wrong or missing?

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Every study I've read has at least got this observation in common; jungle fowl live in distinct groups rather than one large group in a relatively small area.
Perhaps you would like to link some of them. In the one I excerpted above more than 80% of the observations were of single birds. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-28985256
That paper and others suggest a lot of fluidity in the composition of groups as hens go broody and separate off to incubate and then raise their chicks. The groups are indeed small - tiny even - most of the time. And sometimes gather into groups of up to 25 in that paper and about 30 in other papers I've read on it.

If someone got glimpses of my flock during the day, if they were doing fieldwork peeping through the hedges, for example, they might well get the impression of groups of 2 or 3 here, 5 or 6 there, some on their own elsewhere. They don't even roost together, dispersed between 4 coops and 2 trees. But they are one flock who recognize each other as family, not strangers.
 
Seriously?:lol:
So, I can't use the term tribe because some people have socially constructed views of tribe, meaning some lesser race or species, even though it is an accurate description of my own observations and those of the numerous studies on the subject.

Sticking to the jungle fowl for a moment.
Every study I've read has at least got this observation in common; jungle fowl live in distinct groups rather than one large group in a relatively small area. It's not like the studied areas locate these groups miles apart.
The areas studied are a few acres usually. The bigger the area the more of these discrete groups are recorded.
There are variations in stocking density by group but most studies observe group territory being between an acre and two per group.
The field is an acre for an example. if there were chickens in the next field or the field after that the chickens in one field would be aware of the chickens in the next field, much as the jungle fowl are aware of other groups in their locality.
Apparently these distinct groups when it comes to jungle fowl don't merge into one large group despite not have any physical boundaries to prevent them doing so.

Why is this?
What about A Tribe Called Quest?
 
Seriously?:lol:
So, I can't use the term tribe because some people have socially constructed views of tribe, meaning some lesser race or species, even though it is an accurate description of my own observations and those of the numerous studies on the subject.
You can of course use any word you choose, and any analogy you like, to explain the behavior you have observed. But if your goal is to influence how others regard chickens, then you will be more effective if you understand how those others understand your chosen word. Alternatively, you could be precise in explaining the behavior you wish them to pay attention to in their care of their birds.

I am going to bow out of this argument now. This is your house and therefore your rules, and I visit to learn about chickens not semantics.
 
👍
Do they split into tribes as Shadrach described?
No, that's the thing, none of my birds act as anyone describes.

My boys do not fight. None of them ever have. I am out there all the dingydarn time, too, particularly in the evening (for chicken TV!) for hours (and hours) at a time amongst them.

I have witnessed one boy go for another boy months and months ago (both are long gone) once, and the target didn't even notice the flared neck.

It's mostly Cockerel to Pullet neck flares and kicks (and fake kicks, kicks that do not land, I don't think they're meant to) that I've witnessed. Never the boys. And never hens, always adolescents.

Nope, once a girl starts laying the Cockerels don't act up to them.

They don't separate into groups much, either. Shadrach once asked me to get pics of their groups but as soon as I said I'd try, I realized that the hens that follow the boys... change almost every day. It's not the same girls that follow each boy. They also never.. separate. So it's impossible to tell IF there are groups -- it seems like they definitely have followers every day, but WHO it is changes wildly.

They mostly all seem to follow Cracker - who is definitely the leader - even though Oscar is older by 2 weeks. They will both be 1 year old in a couple weeks!

As far as mating is concerned, I make sure all 3 sexually active boys are relaxed, polite, gentle and do not grab/assault. Non-consent from my hens is exile and removal for any Cockerel, I don't care. That is not okay.


Incidentally the first Rooster I had was an assaulter that I didn't realize was doing that until I had some discussions with a Rooster expert (ya'll know Mrs K, love her) we removed him; Cracker (his son!) grew up in the flock amongst grown hens and I think that was the key. The first time I witnessed him drop wing and ask, and watched a hen squat for him before he even grabbed her neck and him do his business quickly and gently, I was blown away. I won't accept a Cockerel who does it any other way now.
 
As far as mating is concerned, I make sure all 3 sexually active boys are relaxed, polite, gentle and do not grab/assault. Non-consent from my hens is exile and removal for any Cockerel, I don't care. That is not okay.
Hmmm…this makes you the head rooster 😆 I assume you mean you remove problem roosters, not that you actively intervene in their interactions, correct?
 
Seriously?:lol:
So, I can't use the term tribe because some people have socially constructed views of tribe, meaning some lesser race or species, even though it is an accurate description of my own observations and those of the numerous studies on the subject.
:highfive:
I am not a fan of those who dictate what words I am allowed to use, and what I am not.
:rolleyes:

I think clan is a good descriptive term akin to a tribe, and could be used despite some jerks misusing it a century ago.

Pretax:
1000051194.jpg

Pullet eggs!
 

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