Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[thistlewick]

So just to be clear, in case I am grossly misunderstanding the kerfluffle;

Shadrach seems to think that Roosters with their flock of hens live separately from each other and constantly fight and have status matches with one another if they are in proximity.

Perris is like; well, that hasn't been my experience here with a zillion Roosters.

Do I have this right? Or am I missing something? Just want to make sure.

Because yeah I'm with Perris. I have 4 boys, 1 of which is just now coming to sexual maturity. They do not fight each other, never have, never do, and just is not a thing. Full stop.

I think the similarity with Perris and my male population is they were all raised by mature hens.

Today is rainy and chilly -- though the temperature doesn't bother them but the rain they aren't the biggest fan of, so today, all 52 chickens are in the hen house and attached run -- they can go out whenever they want (I have timed pop doors, 2 different exits) but they are all cosy in the nice space we've built for them.

It's not really enough space for 52 chickens to spend time in, 16 feet by 18 feet. What is that, 288 square feet.. they should be so uncomfortable right?

They are LOVING it in there, all chillin, soft cooin and laying eggs and relaxing, eating, laying down, being lazy in the grey, rainy day. They COULD absolutely go out and about and to the hedge and lean-to of the barn which is a mere 15 feet away (their driest spot on rainy days other than their hen house) but they aren't, they are cosying up together, most of them in the hen house.

The entire pop of my 52 chickens get along.

I've tried to find any study remotely resembling my keeping conditions and ya know what? It doesn't exist. People who make studies and recordings of chicken behavior don't have my keeping conditions.

I am quite sure other people have as much acreage as I have and have kept chickens who free range and I know of one person here on BYC who has no coop or hen house and their chickens roost in the trees.

It's just none of those people are writing studies or blogs or trying to keep data on chickens. We would sit here and call it "anecdotal" evidence anyway right? Because it wasn't a "study". But studies, by their very nature, have conditions that have to be met.

I think perhaps we might need to take a step back and realize that we don't actually know everything there is to know about chickens with any definitive sense. It's apparent -- because people are constantly saying "well that is not what I observe" and THAT is the actual constant...

 

[Shadrach]

Shadrach seems to think that Roosters with their flock of hens live separately from each other and constantly fight and have status matches with one another if they are in proximity.

Not quite. I think jungle fowl live as you describe. I know some domestic groups manage multiple males in a discrete group.
There are always exceptions, but in jungle fowl from all I've read large groups (over ten members say, are the exception.

My experience is face saving scraps (very low level fighting) are common with males of another discrete group. I know because I've had a zillion males and up to five groups at one time.

But, reading this post from Perris

They didn't die from injuries. Chirk lost his dominance in a brief fight because he got sick, and was essentially paralyzed by disease and nursed through it for a month or so in the utility room. When he recovered from whatever it was, he lived on in protective custody for almost a year till I euthanized him, because even Maria stopped visiting him, and I thought that was no way to live. His dad Sven lived for a year or so on the fringe of the flock after recovering from horrific injuries in a fox attack, and then wandered off up the lane, never to be seen again, much as you describe some of your disappearing.

actually I think I am seeing what I have read about, to wit, that there is less fighting when there are more males. There are lots of possible explanations of course, including that I just knew less about chickens when I had fewer of them, and in particular just 1 or 2 roos, and I also had less experience, so depended more on what I read in BYC to interpret what I thought I saw. And memory can play tricks.

In any case, it seems to me that there is less sparring and more chasing with 11 roos than there was with 2 or 3 or even 4. And that the hierarchy is more flattened and fluid - it went through multiple undulations during the last moult. That was an education, once I opened my eyes to it. First I saw Killay being chased by Hensol and thought a coup was in progress, and then realized that most of the senior roos were not themselves and it twigged that they were going into moult. Through most of the winter they've all done some chasing and being chased as they felt more or less stronger than the other and some apparently relished the opportunity and seized the moment to get their own back for some past perceived injustice. I notice Killay has been nicer to everyone since. There have been no real fights. If there is a hierarchy, who's where in it is not at all clear to me, except that last year's cohort get out of the way for their elders, usually, though it can resemble boys in a playground staying just out of reach of each other's jabs. If they were horses they'd get top marks for shoulder-in at dressage They are outstanding at the half-pass too


wherever the local pheasants do would suit them I imagine. They are unbounded. They can go wherever they want to.


Absolutely. Every broody, hatch and death (of adults; I don't think the death of a chick causes even a ripple of grief, except to an exceptional broody) changes the dynamic.

and others on other threads, I beleive life is not quite as harmonious as Perris sometimes would have us believe.

This could be yet another semantics problem.
I have these semantics problems with my elder sister who is also of the my chickens never fight persuasion. Even funnier is she only has hens. Yup, they fight to.
Having spent some time with my elder sister and her chickens and seen her hens fighting, when pointing this out to her the response I get is "oh they're just playing."

Fortunately mathematics helps out here. The larger the group, the higher the probability of conflict within that group. There is never zero probability.

The vast majority of fights I see are over in seconds and are no more than face saving displays. It's also worth bearing in mind that the keepers presence often means food or other things of more interest to the chickens than having a quick scrap. So, the time one spends observing ones chickens increases the chance of seeing these scraps.

Males knocking other males off a crouching hen is fighting.
Hens pecking junior hens when they're in a nest box the senior wants to use is fighting.
Juveniles chest bumping is fighting...
Just because it may be a one punch/peck/attempted flog it doesn't mean they're not fighting.

 

[BDutch]

I have these semantics problems with my elder sister who is also of the my chickens never fight persuasion. Even funnier is she only has hens. Yup, they fight to.
Having spent some time with my elder sister and her chickens and seen her hens fighting, when pointing this out to her the response I get is "oh they're just playing."

You are so right, what we see is often what we want to see.

Today was a good day to prune the old willows. (On municipality ground behind our garden).

 

[Shadrach]

Definitions if it helps.

"displaying or engaging in violence, combat, or aggression."
"the action of fighting; violence or conflict."

 

[Shadrach]

You are so right, what we see is often what we want to see.

Today was a good day to prune the old willows. (On municipality ground behind our garden).
View attachment 4283381

Is it the right time of year for willow pruning? I've got whips growing and I want o cut them from the tree and plant them.

 

[kattabelly]

Is it the right time of year for willow pruning? I've got whips growing and I want o cut them from the tree and plant them.

I'd try to wait a bit longer if you're planning to plant longer whips rather than shorter cuttings. You want them to have a bit of time to start rooting before bud burst, but avoid the worst winter weather - strong winds aren't good while they're just getting established, and wind rock + heavy rain can leave them standing in craters of water which can lead to rotting even with plants that would cope with very damp conditions once mature.

 

[fuzzi]

Someone here asked about Zaccheus' feathers showing green color.

Note the size of his spurs. He'll be 2 years old in April.

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

I let my new rooster out today—he had somehow let himself out yesterday evening and it was a fight. A real fight. Because my dominant rooster is small and probably has a little jungle fowl in him I figured it would be a fair fight—the new guy is a standard size rooster. The little guy sent the big guy cowering behind a bag of dirt in the barn and proceeded to involve the hens in pecking the big guy wherever they could. Gang violence.

I separated them for the night then let the big guy out again this afternoon. Many scuffles later and having been told exactly where he is NOT allowed to go the big guy found his place and all is right with the world.

It will be interesting to see how the spring and summer progress as these guys start trying to further their genes.

 

[Shadrach]

It took 3 years for my brain to click that I know each rooster's crow. Mostly by syllables and tempo.

The one that cracks me up is the end of crow warble. One gets the full on crow and at the end a rather pathetic sounding warble that trails off.

One very funny one but alarming at the time was from a cockerel called Able who had digestion problems I think. He used to burp and hiccough occasionally and during one crow he hiccoughed and it looked touch and go if the subsequent coughing fit was going to kill him.

 

[Shadrach]

especially Navy and her whinging

Sounds like Sylph.