She said/He said Who's right? Who's wrong? No one!

[Ravynscroft]

I'm sorry to bother, but have to ask..I missed out somewhere..what is this red..purple thing?   I am red..I am purple??  

I have helped many a chick out.  I know when it's time now, after all these yrs. of hatching, when it's best.  In fact, I'm starting to think I will be going in on some silkies eggs that are in lock down right now.  Normally, I have pips the day before the due date.  If I am not seeing anything at this time, I usually go in.  Someone mentioned legs..that's soo important to get those legs up after they have been assisted.  I try and get them both up at the same angle once I get to the whole body part..taking my time getting there first. 

Then you are red, lol... this whole thread was started because AmyLynn2374 and scflock kept giving opposite views on assisted hatches... Amy assists whenever needed (the red side) and sc doesn't assist unless he feels he caused the issue requiring assistance (the blue side)... they fully respect each others views, opinions and hatching styles, but have opposite ways of approaching dilemmas... the thread started with a friendly hatch-off to see which way ended in a higher percentage of chicks hatching and it has grown from there... now it is a place for people needing advice to get it from different perspectives to be able to choose what they're most comfortable with doing in their own hatches...

If you assist then you are red... if you don't then you are blue... if you only assist in certain circumstances you are purple, or any color variation in between... oh, and ones who go in and find a chicks beak to get it internally pipped is orange, which is waaay past red...

 

[BlackwoodHollow]

I'm sorry to bother, but have to ask..I missed out somewhere..what is this red..purple thing? I am red..I am purple??

I have helped many a chick out. I know when it's time now, after all these yrs. of hatching, when it's best. In fact, I'm starting to think I will be going in on some silkies eggs that are in lock down right now. Normally, I have pips the day before the due date. If I am not seeing anything at this time, I usually go in. Someone mentioned legs..that's soo important to get those legs up after they have been assisted. I try and get them both up at the same angle once I get to the whole body part..taking my time getting there first.

Velkommen!!

Ravyn explained it well.
Some of us are so new to hatching, that we don't know where we fall on the spectrum.
Being blue also seems to require a good deal of lotion.
Most of us can barely keep up with this stinkin' thread anyhow, but it's a good time when we are here.

Looks like I checked in on a good night(good discussion). How's E1 doing?

I'm getting to be more that way, albeit on a much smaller scale. Decisions have to be made as to who goes and who stays, since I have a chicken cap I won't go over. I want to raise the best birds I can, but my smaller numbers means it will take much longer and is a bit more personal - since they all get names and I grew up getting food from the supermarket neatly wrapped in plastic.

Culling is hard, but each extra cockerel I process is one less bought from a CAFO and I feel good about that. I give them a great life, and a quick death and appreciate the nourishment they give me.

Theoretically I agree with this statement 100%. It is so difficult to break free from that supermarkert-food-supplied-for-me-nice-and-neat mind-set. Even our first eggs seemed strange to me. lol Now I can't live without them.

However, we still have those cock birds that are just plain extra--taking up food and space. I tell myself that I haven't processed them b/c the process itself is intimidating and I don't want to pluck all those feathers(I have tactile issues), and that is part of it, but I also know those birds. They have names. Even big fat meany has won a place in my black little heart.

So I start putting ads up to re-home on CL, but that seems unfair, too. I know someone is going to send them to freezer camp, and what if they are cruel about it. A friend brought up cock-fighting. I don't know how logical that is, but now I'm worried about that aspect of it, too. So they remain in the bachelor pad. Something has to give, though. We have neighbors and four birds having a crow-off every morning is getting old. lol

 

[BlackwoodHollow]

Alright, back to bed with me.

Ciao, everybirdy.

 

[Ravynscroft]

@gachooks!!

Missed ya!!

I forgot about the lotion, lol... oh, and the candling bit... ah, well, I tried...

How's your eggs doing? I caved and set a whole 'nother batch, lol... with help... so another 40 or so eggs...

 

[scflock]

Ok, before I start getting all flocky this morning, I want to have one of my rare serious moments...
The average person will experience a handfull of life changing events in their lifetime. 9/11 was one of them. My wife and I hadn't been dating long, so for some reason this day sticks out more to me than any other day of the year, even more than the 4th of July. I know everyone remembers where they were (except maybe BR

). I can't believe that seniors in high school were babies when that happened.
I was a superintendent on a construction job at a nuclear power plant on 9/11. I heard people talking about it all day, but had not seen the footage. The plant was near an airport, and the first thing you noticed was there wasn't a plane in the sky. By lunchtime we had two F-16s flying cover. On 9/11, you could hold up your badge to the guard at the entrance and he would wave you through. On 9/12, there was a mile long wait to get in while the national guard did thorough searches of every vehicle.
The thing I remember the most, after seeing the shocking carnage on television when I got home, was the national pride that started on 9/12. Before the politics and religion took over, do you guys remember all of the American flags people were flying in their windows? I know, for me, NY might as well have been another country before 9/11. Now, every year, I watch NGTV for 3 days straight to see the stories of the peoples lives that were affected. It makes me cry...
I just wanted to share that this morning, and I'm sure many of you feel reflective on this day as well.

Enough of that. Personality profiles at lunch

 

[WalnutHill]

Velkommen!!

Ravyn explained it well.
Some of us are so new to hatching, that we don't know where we fall on the spectrum.
Being blue also seems to require a good deal of lotion.
Most of us can barely keep up with this stinkin' thread anyhow, but it's a good time when we are here.

Looks like I checked in on a good night(good discussion). How's E1 doing?

Theoretically I agree with this statement 100%. It is so difficult to break free from that supermarkert-food-supplied-for-me-nice-and-neat mind-set. Even our first eggs seemed strange to me. lol Now I can't live without them.

However, we still have those cock birds that are just plain extra--taking up food and space. I tell myself that I haven't processed them b/c the process itself is intimidating and I don't want to pluck all those feathers(I have tactile issues), and that is part of it, but I also know those birds. They have names. Even big fat meany has won a place in my black little heart.

So I start putting ads up to re-home on CL, but that seems unfair, too. I know someone is going to send them to freezer camp, and what if they are cruel about it. A friend brought up cock-fighting. I don't know how logical that is, but now I'm worried about that aspect of it, too. So they remain in the bachelor pad. Something has to give, though. We have neighbors and four birds having a crow-off every morning is getting old. lol

I definitely feel where you are coming from. Really, though, once you have humanely killed your own bird, even if it's named, it won't seem so overwhelming.

I'd suggest taking a few days or weeks to mentally work toward it.

Plucking isn't necessary. You can very quickly and very easily skin a bird that you don't intend to roast or fry, just as you would a pheasant or other gamebird. While you lose the 2nd and 3rd wing joints, the rest goes very quickly and requires only a pair of heavy shears. and a knife.

Here is a good video of the process, but make a little bigger hole in the jug

The buckets with a hole in the lid are a nice touch but if used, line them with a heavy trash bag and be sure they are stable so they don't tip.

 

[WalnutHill]

Ok, before I start getting all flocky this morning, I want to have one of my rare serious moments...
The average person will experience a handfull of life changing events in their lifetime. 9/11 was one of them. My wife and I hadn't been dating long, so for some reason this day sticks out more to me than any other day of the year, even more than the 4th of July. I know everyone remembers where they were (except maybe BR

). I can't believe that seniors in high school were babies when that happened.
I was a superintendent on a construction job at a nuclear power plant on 9/11. I heard people talking about it all day, but had not seen the footage. The plant was near an airport, and the first thing you noticed was there wasn't a plane in the sky. By lunchtime we had two F-16s flying cover. On 9/11, you could hold up your badge to the guard at the entrance and he would wave you through. On 9/12, there was a mile long wait to get in while the national guard did thorough searches of every vehicle.
The thing I remember the most, after seeing the shocking carnage on television when I got home, was the national pride that started on 9/12. Before the politics and religion took over, do you guys remember all of the American flags people were flying in their windows? I know, for me, NY might as well have been another country before 9/11. Now, every year, I watch NGTV for 3 days straight to see the stories of the peoples lives that were affected. It makes me cry...
I just wanted to share that this morning, and I'm sure many of you feel reflective on this day as well.

Enough of that. Personality profiles at lunch

Well said. I certainly remember the day. Watching the horror unfold on live television...we started out in the store a few doors down when they came and told us about it, I ended up buying a TV so we would watch at work. We should have closed up shop and gone home, the few people who came in were just looking for someone to talk to, to try to make sense of what they were seeing.

The absence of normal air traffic and the fighter flights from the ANGB were unforgettable.

 

[dan26552]

Ok, before I start getting all flocky this morning, I want to have one of my rare serious moments...
The average person will experience a handfull of life changing events in their lifetime. 9/11 was one of them. My wife and I hadn't been dating long, so for some reason this day sticks out more to me than any other day of the year, even more than the 4th of July. I know everyone remembers where they were (except maybe BR

). I can't believe that seniors in high school were babies when that happened.
I was a superintendent on a construction job at a nuclear power plant on 9/11. I heard people talking about it all day, but had not seen the footage. The plant was near an airport, and the first thing you noticed was there wasn't a plane in the sky. By lunchtime we had two F-16s flying cover. On 9/11, you could hold up your badge to the guard at the entrance and he would wave you through. On 9/12, there was a mile long wait to get in while the national guard did thorough searches of every vehicle.
The thing I remember the most, after seeing the shocking carnage on television when I got home, was the national pride that started on 9/12. Before the politics and religion took over, do you guys remember all of the American flags people were flying in their windows? I know, for me, NY might as well have been another country before 9/11. Now, every year, I watch NGTV for 3 days straight to see the stories of the peoples lives that were affected. It makes me cry...
I just wanted to share that this morning, and I'm sure many of you feel reflective on this day as well.

Enough of that. Personality profiles at lunch

Nope dont remember

My mom had a friend who's son was suppose to be in one of those buildings when the planes hit but his conference got canceled

 

[lazy gardener]

Why have you kept your mouth shut all day? It's your thread!

I thought this was a safe place to voice opinions??

I can understand why Amy did not jump in. For the same reason that I didn't. We didn't want to sway the decision on that assist. If someone is asking for opinion, it will be given, but when they are not asking, perhaps just seeking validation, that's not a time to be offering view points that don't support where the person with the dilemma is coming from at the moment.

I agree with what you said, but have a few reflections.
Next year is a new season. I have more breeding stock to choose from, they will be on a better diet, and they will be incubated in quality incubators. I may still have to assist some of the hybrids, but only because they are too big. Other than providing a door, they will be on their own. Whatever does not hatch within a 24 hour window, probably won't hatch. By taking my errors out of the equation, the chicks have a better chance.

Excellent. You are accomplishing what we are all striving for. Improved hatching: which encompasses egg quality, incubator quality, and incubation process management.

Really good post Walnut.

The more variables you have under control, the more appropriate assists should be. In other words, once you have corrected everything you can correct, theoretically there should be less assists needed in the first place.

Thanks for sharing your progression!

Ditto.

I have a question maybe one of the long time raisers or genetics experts can chime in on. I never plan to use Peep, (my special needs roo) as a breeder, don't even think he can really complete the mating process even when he does try. BUT I am curious as to how birth defects from something such as a screwed up hatch due to low temps plays a part in genetics. Had he been incubated in the right conditions, chances are he would have been normal. Do defects from sub par incubation affect the actual genetic make up of the chicken and can it be bred down to offspring?

I'm not an expert. But... this would be my take on it, in my flock. I'd not use him for the basic reason that I wouldn't be assured that his issue was not somehow genetic, or exacerbated by underlying genetic weakness. But... If I was breeding only for my own flock replenishment, and really liked the overall package he presented aside from his balance issues, I might use him, only if I was willing to CULL HARD if any issues showed up in the hatching process, or afterwards.

I bet she's cute though!

That goes back to what Ravyn was saying, about do we really know where "faults" came from? I have a Wheaten Ameraucana that I helped along when she stopped halfway through zipping. She was a stargazer and I called her "neuro chick" for the first several days after hatching, since she held her head up to the ceiling until she fell backwards. She came out of it, not sure if it was the supplements I gave her or not, and now she seems to be developing a roach back but otherwise healthy.

Was it genetics? Shipping damage? Problems with the parent stock? Not enough O2/CO2 exchange due to the change in altitude? Who knows. What I do know is that she will not be used for breeding since I don't know if it will be passed on or not.

I had a shipped Dom chick who had some neuro problems. I treated him with Nutri-Drench, Vitamin E, and Selenium. He went from being comatose and cold to the touch, to not being discernible from his siblings within a week. He went on to develop a severe case of scoliosis and congestive heart failure. After talking to my sis (a veterinarian) and formulating some opinions of my own, I believe situations like that may be due to some metabolic deficiency. All chicks on the same diet, why should only one develop Vit E encephalopathy?

I suppose I am fortunate as I do eat so many of my birds as a matter of routine. I incubate far more than I need to hatch, I hatch far more than I need to raise, and I raise far more than I need to keep. This allows me to select the best of the best of the best of my birds, and utilize the others in a wholesome way (not like the mass disposal of male layer breed chicks).

I don't treat it much differently than setting seeds in spring. I may only need 12 tomato plants, but I will plant a flat. The biggest and strongest go in the best growing area, with the biggest tomato cages. The next best go into the front garden, which gets only afternoon sun, tending to dwarf the plants. The rest are planted at the edges of the compost pile, where the higher nutrients allow them to compete in production with the better plants.

Can I ask you: at what age do you process your roos? Do you keep them in a separate grow out pen? Too bad those roos couldn't be as quiet as tomato plants!

Culling is hard, but each extra cockerel I process is one less bought from a CAFO and I feel good about that. I give them a great life, and a quick death and appreciate the nourishment they give me.

I tucked 2 roos in my freezer yesterday. It took me 90 minutes to process them. Poor time management for sure, I can only hope that I will get more efficient. Yes, it does feel good to provide your own!

Being blue also seems to require a good deal of lotion.
However, we still have those cock birds that are just plain extra--taking up food and space. I tell myself that I haven't processed them b/c the process itself is intimidating and I don't want to pluck all those feathers(I have tactile issues), and that is part of it, but I also know those birds. They have names. Even big fat meany has won a place in my black little heart.

So I start putting ads up to re-home on CL, but that seems unfair, too. I know someone is going to send them to freezer camp, and what if they are cruel about it. A friend brought up cock-fighting. I don't know how logical that is, but now I'm worried about that aspect of it, too. So they remain in the bachelor pad. Something has to give, though. We have neighbors and four birds having a crow-off every morning is getting old. lol

The first one is the hardest. Never easy. I understand the issues you're facing. You might consider: Using a broomstick to dispatch them, skinning them, and do it with some one there to give moral support.
And, would someone please explain the Blue lotion? I missed that conversation.

Ok, before I start getting all flocky this morning, I want to have one of my rare serious moments...
The average person will experience a handfull of life changing events in their lifetime. 9/11 was one of them. My wife and I hadn't been dating long, so for some reason this day sticks out more to me than any other day of the year, even more than the 4th of July. I know everyone remembers where they were (except maybe BR

). I can't believe that seniors in high school were babies when that happened.
I was a superintendent on a construction job at a nuclear power plant on 9/11. I heard people talking about it all day, but had not seen the footage. The plant was near an airport, and the first thing you noticed was there wasn't a plane in the sky. By lunchtime we had two F-16s flying cover. On 9/11, you could hold up your badge to the guard at the entrance and he would wave you through. On 9/12, there was a mile long wait to get in while the national guard did thorough searches of every vehicle.
The thing I remember the most, after seeing the shocking carnage on television when I got home, was the national pride that started on 9/12. Before the politics and religion took over, do you guys remember all of the American flags people were flying in their windows? I know, for me, NY might as well have been another country before 9/11. Now, every year, I watch NGTV for 3 days straight to see the stories of the peoples lives that were affected. It makes me cry...
I just wanted to share that this morning, and I'm sure many of you feel reflective on this day as well.

Enough of that. Personality profiles at lunch

9/11 was a life changing event. How do you spell vulnerable? We were discussing that last night. I compared it to Pearl Harbor. Both events were totally shocking as we considered attack on our soil to be something that could never happen HERE! But, it did, and it will again. Sad times in which we live. Hey, SC: I hear that you bought some Ameraucanas!

 

[WVduckchick]

Ok, before I start getting all flocky this morning, I want to have one of my rare serious moments...
The average person will experience a handfull of life changing events in their lifetime. 9/11 was one of them. My wife and I hadn't been dating long, so for some reason this day sticks out more to me than any other day of the year, even more than the 4th of July. I know everyone remembers where they were (except maybe BR ). I can't believe that seniors in high school were babies when that happened.
I was a superintendent on a construction job at a nuclear power plant on 9/11. I heard people talking about it all day, but had not seen the footage. The plant was near an airport, and the first thing you noticed was there wasn't a plane in the sky. By lunchtime we had two F-16s flying cover. On 9/11, you could hold up your badge to the guard at the entrance and he would wave you through. On 9/12, there was a mile long wait to get in while the national guard did thorough searches of every vehicle.
The thing I remember the most, after seeing the shocking carnage on television when I got home, was the national pride that started on 9/12. Before the politics and religion took over, do you guys remember all of the American flags people were flying in their windows? I know, for me, NY might as well have been another country before 9/11. Now, every year, I watch NGTV for 3 days straight to see the stories of the peoples lives that were affected. It makes me cry...
I just wanted to share that this morning, and I'm sure many of you feel reflective on this day as well.

Enough of that. Personality profiles at lunch

I remember where I was as well. I was working in Charleston, WV and someone heard it on the radio. We were not supposed to use the internet for anything other than work in those days, but I logged in to watch. Finally the boss told everyone they could tune in online.
We knew then that day would never be forgotten.

I got to visit ground zero a few years ago and it still is amazing to look back on it all, this many years later.

I'm looking for a pic of a beautiful quilt that my mother made of the twin towers on fire. My sister (that lived in NYC) sent a pic this morning of it hanging in the window of her new house. The quilt was featured in a quilting magazine a few years ago.