She said/He said Who's right? Who's wrong? No one!

[scflock]

See...i have helped out so many chicks. All but one have survived and the one that died was due to a sickness. So...I have to disagree with you. It does however take them a little longer to stand but not toe issues or leg issues and I am redder than red.

Not all chicks that have curled toes and splayed legs are correctible

But breeding from the strongest just seems to make more sense to me.

Agreed

Thanks. Its strange, as I was opening it up, it was almost like I was prepared for it to die in my hands, so I knew I couldn't do any worse than leaving it as it was, so I was ok with it. That could very well change, and I could regret it, but I'll deal with whatever happens. And learn from it.

WV, you know your my girl, and I'm not arguing with you, nor do I want to kick you while you are down. What you are going through right now is exactly why I don't assist any more. If it died in the shell, you would feel bad. If it died in your hand after you broke it out, you will feel worse. If in 3 days it is crying all the time, legs don't work, and getting physically worse, you will have to make a decision about a cute, fluffy little chick that you have gotten attached to because of all the extra attention you are giving it.
If the chick survives, and thrives, then you will be elated because you saved it. I just have not experienced that elation

I've kept my mouth shut all day on this topic because I feel very strongly about it and it comes down to personal opinion and choice.

SC has few assists that haven't had to be culled, my experience is just the opposite, I've never had an assist I had to cull and only one that died after being helped over a week later of digestional complications.

Don't play the martyr. This thread was invented because of this very discussion. You and I have always disagreed on this, and this thread was invented to show both sides. Saying you feel very strongly about it is dismissive to me. I feel strongly about it, too. I don't choose not to assist because I am mean. I choose not to assist because it has never worked for me, and it's heartbreaking to end the life of a fluffy chick.

Yes, your experience has been the opposite, but I'm incubating my tenth batch of the year. Odds...
I'm working with multiple flocks, one in particular that could have possible genetic issues. You have a phenomenal track record hatching and assisting, but if you are hatching eggs every 4 weeks, things are going to happen

In my job, I also hear of the NICU baby that is blind, racked with cerebral palsy, will permanently be fed through a tube and had severely decreased mental capacity. I read of many that have genetic abnormalities and are only saved by massive amounts of medical intervention and encouraged to struggle on as long as they can. Does that make them less precious, less special, less important? NO, but they are humans and I look at them much differently and with much more compassion than I do my chickens.

I agree with this 100%. I really enjoy my chickens. I care for them and protect them as much as I can, but they are chickens. It's not fair to compare culling a chick to aborting a baby with health issues

Why have you kept your mouth shut all day? It's your thread!

I thought this was a safe place to voice opinions??

Exactly

 

[Sally Sunshine]

This is cool before I forget to post it! Now I will go read! Sorry I missed out yesterday, storms took out satellite!

http://slideplayer.com/slide/1738382/

REPRODUCTION SLIDES in poultry

 

[Sally Sunshine]

I decided y'all ARE NUTS!!

you know I cant read all that!! OMG

What we did at a point on the diary thread was have a daily update, like Ron always did on the big hatchalongs! Any takers on updating us SLOW POKES once a day by posting an amusing update?


I have to get out to the coops, so if I have missed a important post or 900 please let me know!!

but first.... HAPPY FRIDAY!!!!

 

[WalnutHill]

I'm not an expert. But... this would be my take on it, in my flock. I'd not use him for the basic reason that I wouldn't be assured that his issue was not somehow genetic, or exacerbated by underlying genetic weakness. But... If I was breeding only for my own flock replenishment, and really liked the overall package he presented aside from his balance issues, I might use him, only if I was willing to CULL HARD if any issues showed up in the hatching process, or afterwards.

I had a shipped Dom chick who had some neuro problems. I treated him with Nutri-Drench, Vitamin E, and Selenium. He went from being comatose and cold to the touch, to not being discernible from his siblings within a week. He went on to develop a severe case of scoliosis and congestive heart failure. After talking to my sis (a veterinarian) and formulating some opinions of my own, I believe situations like that may be due to some metabolic deficiency. All chicks on the same diet, why should only one develop Vit E encephalopathy?

Can I ask you: at what age do you process your roos? Do you keep them in a separate grow out pen? Too bad those roos couldn't be as quiet as tomato plants!

I tucked 2 roos in my freezer yesterday. It took me 90 minutes to process them. Poor time management for sure, I can only hope that I will get more efficient. Yes, it does feel good to provide your own!

The first one is the hardest. Never easy. I understand the issues you're facing. You might consider: Using a broomstick to dispatch them, skinning them, and do it with some one there to give moral support.

From the top:

Amy, for growing your own flock I completely agree. But if he is that handicapped, he may not be able to do the deed.

My past experience with stargazers/flippers is that they seem to get better then end up with permanent issues as well. I now cull if they stargaze or flip after a week of age.

My roos grow in the general population and if they are of the dual purpose/layer breeds, they are harvested between 12 and 18 weeks or when they are too much of a pain to deal with. They yield very little meat but it's good for chicken pot pies or soup. I won't waste expensive feed on them. When skinning, no more than 15 minutes each from caught to chilling.

 

[rossfam06]

Good points on everyone's part. I laughed when someone made the Stephen Hawkins reference. Lol!!!! Well I sold my little 9 week polish pullet. And I am off to go pick up my Tunnels to Towers 5k packet in remembrance of 9/11.

 

[Sally Sunshine]

I would drive but I have an 8th month old baby that HATES the car!! We went to the beach last month, a 1 hour trip ended up taking 2 hours because he was hysterical and I had to pull over 3 times! I just couldn't imagine a 3 hour trip with this stinker!!
And this is with a forced air incubator? I've been thinking of lowering the temp during hatch time. It doesn't delay the rest of the eggs when you lower it for the first pip? And do you lower it so there is less heat shock for the chick?
Air cells on fresh eggs are nice and small. Just make sure they are not detached or loose. They should be firm in place. It's not common to get a loose/detached air cell with home eggs but it does happen.
I have one right now in the incubator that is oblong, kinda torpedo-ish. I marked it down when I first got them and was sure it would not develop but sure enough it is!! I don't know how the chick will do if it keeps developing.
I know! See my reply above to WV~Ugh!!
Good luck!!!

Copy from my Hatching 101 article

Researchers have found that lowering temperatures will prolong incubation,
HOWEVER it is favourable to do so at the end of incubation.
Day 19 & 20 Temp Min 98.0 Max 98.5
Day 21 Temp Min 97 Max 98.0
for more information please refer here:


SEE PAGE 42 www.hubbardbreeders.com/media/incubation_guide_english__030374800_0945_07012015.pdf



EDITED TO MAKE LINK WORK!

​

 

[WVduckchick]

Just finished around 400 posts. I have been under the weather the past few days. I have been trying to keep up. Great discussions. Too many to multi quote and i am on my phone. Need big pc for that. And thats hard to do when supine.SC did another brilliant parade loved it. My girl is my ring tone for Imogen she is my youngest daughter that lives in England. Congratulations wv, great hatch!

Thanks! And welcome back, I hope you are feeling better.

WV, you know your my girl, and I'm not arguing with you, nor do I want to kick you while you are down. What you are going through right now is exactly why I don't assist any more. If it died in the shell, you would feel bad. If it died in your hand after you broke it out, you will feel worse. If in 3 days it is crying all the time, legs don't work, and getting physically worse, you will have to make a decision about a cute, fluffy little chick that you have gotten attached to because of all the extra attention you are giving it.
If the chick survives, and thrives, then you will be elated because you saved it. I just have not experienced that elation

All points well taken.

See, I feel both sides. A lot of both sides! Which is why I came to the determination that it depends on the circumstances.

Anyway, I don't have time this morning to go into many details, but I spent time with the little fella last night, even laid him on my bare belly for a while. I knew he wasn't going to thrive. I did get him to take a few drinks, but he didn't move around much last night. This morning, he was still alive and I gave him a few more drinks. Then he died peacefully. And I'm at peace with what I did. I will still review the what-ifs, but only to learn from them. No regrets.

I took this just minutes before he passed.




.

 

[Sally Sunshine]

I made an edit to the link, it works now, sorry!

 

[WalnutHill]

Thanks! And welcome back, I hope you are feeling better.


All points well taken.

See, I feel both sides. A lot of both sides! Which is why I came to the determination that it depends on the circumstances.

Anyway, I don't have time this morning to go into many details, but I spent time with the little fella last night, even laid him on my bare belly for a while. I knew he wasn't going to thrive. I did get him to take a few drinks, but he didn't move around much last night. This morning, he was still alive and I gave him a few more drinks. Then he died peacefully. And I'm at peace with what I did. I will still review the what-ifs, but only to learn from them. No regrets.

I took this just minutes before he passed.




.

What a sweet baby. They all are. While it seems so sad that they can't all make it, imagine the chicken population if they did...

 

[scflock]

I decided y'all ARE NUTS!!

you know I cant read all that!! OMG

What we did at a point on the diary thread was have a daily update, like Ron always did on the big hatchalongs! Any takers on updating us SLOW POKES once a day by posting an amusing update?


I have to get out to the coops, so if I have missed a important post or 900 please let me know!!

but first.... HAPPY FRIDAY!!!!

I have done wrap ups, and they are fabulous

, but I've been too busy to do one lately. You might not like my wrap ups anyway, because you kinda had to read the thread to get them

.

For example, one line of yesterday's wrap up would be "chooks finally showed up and said nothing".
See? You had to be there