She said/He said Who's right? Who's wrong? No one!

[lazy gardener]

Im gonna hafta take pics of the air cells for yall

LG it was alot to quote but i appreciate your insight. I have read on the duck thread as well as incubatin by Amy and hatching by Sally. I try to keep myself armed with any info i can come accross. The McMurry site is where i read about misting and i think its exactly what you just relayed to me. How mama gets off and possibly wets the eggs daily. My hesitation is in my inexperience...

Wonder if you could mist half, and not do the rest???

Everyone should have a copy of Storey's. I call the chicken guide the chicken bible. Excellent books

I'm partial to Harvey Ussery's "The small flock poultry keeper". Biggest reason that I like his book: he talks about the impact of poultry on the land, and how to monitor that.

I'm debating bigger, or another. The 20-24 chick hatches are about right for my brooder space and sales, but the 3 week downtime between hatches hurts in the spring. I am doing exactly what you said, keeping an eye out for a Sportsman. If I can't find one, I will probably be getting another Octo 20 before next season

SC, bite the bullet. Make your bator with STC1000. Then save all the money you would have spent on a cabinet bator, and upgrade your BCM flock.

I have processed, and would do it again, but Mrs. Flock is still a little squeamish over it. She has eaten them, but she has a funny look on her face when she does

. It's a shame, too, because marans are a fantastic table bird. I have customers that will buy them as meat birds, but it costs me more to grow them to butcher size than I sell them for

Keep serving up home grown chicken tenders. She'll get used to it. Yes, it does take some getting used to. But, the last home grown bird I served was absolutely the best chicken I've ever had. I'm getting spoiled to store stuff. Still buy it... but it just ain't the same! No where near the flavor.

I was very concerned about the small air cells at lockdown, and I absolutely believe that their vertical hatching position helped

I'm 100% sold on upright hatching.

If I crossed a cuckoo marans rooster over the Ams, would I get a sex linked EE?

Read the Sex linked info chart. Lots of good neuron stimulating material there. As later poster said: reverse the gender/coloring, and you've got your sex links. I have lots of beautiful sex linked EE from Jack over Dom and SLW. Awesome birds, those BSL are!!!

Yep, 1 hand under each cheek!! I'm sitting on the floor beside the table that the bator is sitting on just listening to the sweet little peeps that are coming from inside!!

Have your hands fallen asleep yet????

Understood. But what if your hatches were running < 25% hatch rate? Experience may not help, and suggestions even from the experienced helpful folks at BYC may not help because there ARE so many good but divergent methods that can work. Mix and match advice will not work, so if it was me (and it was at one time) I started with PASreform and once I was following those guidelines, I found I needed to scrap my crappy incubators because I can't watch them and heat and cool rooms and use blankets to make up for crappy thermostats. A thermostat is supposed to be a thermostat...we demand it in our homes, if I want 72 degrees I want it no matter what temperature it is outside, no reason to expect less of a "precise" incubator!

Now that I have had good hatches limited only by egg quality, I am able to further refine profiles to account for my variable environment rather than a controlled lab environment. Each one of us does this, and shares in hopes of helping others. But my incubation program won't work at 6000 feet ASL, nor in a very dry or very moist climate. Heck, thanks to Michigan where the weather changes hour by hour, I just shoot for averages. In the GQF, I add one coffee cup of water to the water pan twice a week. It seems to work. Very unscientific, but there is little danger of overhumidification or underhumidification in this fashion.

Awesome concept! Hope to get that in my next build.

Didn't think about how slow the turtles are and how fast the fish are...

Turtles move a lot faster in the water. And... the speed at which they can go from neck drawn into shell, laying on the bottom of the pond, looking like a rock to neck fully extended, jaws fully opened is very close to the speed of Monseur Grenouille's tongue.

 

[scflock]

Wonder if you could mist half, and not do the rest???

I'm partial to Harvey Ussery's "The small flock poultry keeper".  Biggest reason that I like his book:  he talks about the impact of poultry on the land, and how to monitor that.

SC, bite the bullet.  Make your bator with STC1000.  Then save all the money you would have spent on a cabinet bator, and upgrade your BCM flock.  

Keep serving up home grown chicken tenders.  She'll get used to it.  Yes, it does take some getting used to.  But, the last home grown bird I served was absolutely the best chicken I've ever had.  I'm getting spoiled to store stuff.  Still buy it... but it just ain't the same!  No where near the flavor.

I'm 100% sold on upright hatching.

Read the Sex linked info chart.  Lots of good neuron stimulating material there.  As later poster said:  reverse the gender/coloring, and you've got your sex links.  I have lots of beautiful sex linked EE from Jack over Dom and SLW.  Awesome birds, those BSL are!!!

Have your hands fallen asleep yet????

Awesome concept!  Hope to get that in my next build.

Turtles move a lot faster in the water.  And... the speed at which they can go from neck drawn into shell, laying on the bottom of the pond, looking like a rock to neck fully extended, jaws fully opened is very close to the speed of Monseur Grenouille's tongue.  

I credited Friday with the carton posts. Was that you? I'm definitely doing that next time

 

[WVduckchick]

My uncle has bass in his pond, I've personally seen some of them swallow a duckling or two whole

Big bass, tiny ducklings?? Holy moly! I guess the Calls will definitely not go to my pond....

 

[FridayYet]

I credited Friday with the carton posts. Was that you? I'm definitely doing that next time

Once upon a time I did post about hatching in cartons because it is recommended for shipped eggs. Others may have posted it too.

Some people like it because it contains a lot of the mess!

 

[WalnutHill]

I agree with Ruby 100% and I would not throw an egg out because of temp, BUT when I use the temp gun on the egg shell the DIS eggs are typically 1.5 degrees cooler than the live ones after about day 16. Not scientific, but something I started to notice.

I'm expecting a little later than Wed morning since I had those temp drops. May have killed two weak ones, and delayed my hatch. We will see soon enough.

Thanks Walnut! I'm going to be such a thermometer nerd by the time I'm done.




What is the compressor setting? Do I need to worry about that one?

Compressor setting is if you are using it in a kegerator or meat curing box. It helps prevent cycling the compressor as soon as it stops. No effect at all on heating mode.

 

[meganhundley]

@lazy: they're getting there,the tingle in my fingers is slowly spreading up my hand, if they fall completely asleep I won't be able to touch the bator and that's a good thing!!

 

[rossfam06]

Did I tell you guys I bought Ameraucanas?

Nice!

On that note, I have a line on some nice W/BW Ameraucana hatching eggs for the spring!  They are in Arizona at 2900 feet, so closer geographically and closer in altitude to mine. 

That is awesome!

And this is why I named the BCM SC... if the other chicks are all girls, it makes sense SC was running away screaming...

smack:

Nope not quite!! Lol!!

Thank you, I have an urge to get smack happy!

I did too when I first started.

What's 75% of 12? Sorry not good with math, lol

..........hmmmmmm.

Who you kidding? We all know you set the incubator up right next to the bed!

That's where mine stays all the time. No one messes wit it ....but me.

......you know what I meant.

Nope... but you would if you switched that... Am roo over Cuckoo hens... all boys would hatch with headspots... hens pass barring on to their sons, but withold it from their daughters...

You so smart!!!!!

I have 2 pips!!!!! And 1 is working hard at pipping I think.

Yay!!! Finally!

I know you. Leave them alone. Keep your hands out of that bator

Agreed!

I didn't notice the pips til after I started candling the others, the speckles kind of camouflaged the pips, but I think all the others are DIS. They were cold to the touch and I didn't see any movement and the drawdown hadn't progressed any. So I think 3 will be it.

Oh no!!!

This is so funny!!!

Good luck on the hatch!! Hopefully pips by Wednesday morning! I don't want to get my hopes up by I have 3 that are still very active in the shells. I'm locking them down tonight.
It's so true! I killed my first chick at the end of my first hatch. (Opened an egg and it was alive till I tore the membrane ) That was traumatic! I'm even trying to be more hands off, which is hard. But I've found I can candle without actually touching the eggs, so I'm able to get my fix!

I remember this. It was sad.

Guess I shouldn't mention that my very first hatch was 100%?
In a still air Hovabator 1602N with 4 pullet EE eggs and 1 was 3 weeks old ar set?

I have had a couple....esp if we only count at lockdown. Lol!!!

When I candled earlier, 1 of them looked like he kept pushing up and down on the aircell, I'm thinking it was his beak, is he trying to pip internally or has he already done that and maybe now he's trying to pip through the shell? I'm a little worried that maybe he can't get into the cell cause this was the egg that had a loose cell til about day 18 or 19.

. Why are your hands in the bator???!!!

 

[kwhites634]

I love Peretti. His use of symbolism is incredible. An other must read author is Brock and Boedie Thoene. Their stuff is incredible. One series they did was based on WWII, covering the international happenings based around the persecution and Hitler's advance. One of the books in that series is Vienna Prelude. Totally blew my socks off. An other modern day author is Karen ? (somebody help me out here!) She covers a lot of hot or controversial topics.

Love to hear about your Ams.

I barter eggs to a family who lives about 2 miles away for honey and the use of their splitter every fall. Win/win situation. I started giving my GD a spoonful of honey every day, and she was able to get off nebs. I also have some of their wax, and plan to make some jewel weed/plantain salve with it... If I can ever find the time and the ingredients at the same time.

How many went into lock down???

Did Oz drop by? I missed it.

Most of the published studies are done in super environment controlled incubators, so... all conditions would be the same in the experimental vs. control group except for the particular test hypothesis. Sally has posted a ton of studies that have kicked my brain into overdrive about pushing limits, and being aware that there are so very many options available.

Honey is stupid expensive. May be on my bucket list for after retirement. I'd be making my own hive from the ground up.

Those .75 rarely last beyond the first day, anyways! (sorry.

)

Math was my easiest high school subject. I loved my math teacher. But, he was very soft spoken, had a mellow monotone voice, and math was just after lunch. So, I always fell asleep. My SIL who was in the same class said he once came and stood over my desk, watching me sleep, then he turned and spoke to the rest of the class... "I really should wake her up. But, she get's straight A's." He turned, and walked back to the black board, and continued on with his lesson plan. I was incredibly shy, and would have died a thousand deaths if he HAD woke me up!!!

Megan, if you have any signs of life... go to your chair.

Need to look up those authors. Need to remember the cheese cloth. Our house with forced hot air is super dusty, but we rarely use the oil heat.


Keep them buggers away from my girls!!!
All his stuff was good.

It will most likely cause your temp to go up. I use plenty of blankets and pillows around my bator to level out temps. Snuggle it up at night, then pull the wraps back during the day. (wood heat) If you do cover bator, be sure to leave room for circulation at the vent(s).

I don't know if skin color is covered in the Sex linked information thread. Start by checking there. But, I did find it to be a good gender indicator in my summer hatches (only one chick that did not follow the leg color pattern, and I wonder if his daddy was not Jack. His sons may have been throwing some wild oats when the last hatch was fertilized. You can do a google search re: skin color and gender. Might find something. That's how I usually research stuff.

I'm delighted for you. That should give you plenty of breeder options.

Have you gone to the duck thread? Hatching parameters may be a bit different, given the nature of the beast. It would stand to reason that Mama would go to the watering hole during her daily walk about, and slosh some water back to the nest in her feathers. But, then again, perhaps she sheds it all by the time she gets back. My best hatch was with eggs that had air cells too small due to humidity jumps all over the place before LD. So I hatched them upright in cartons.

I wasn't wanting to cover my incubator with a pillow; I was just rattling Megan's tree when she mentioned going to bed last night, knowing how she's been keeping such close tabs on those eggs, hovering over them til the wee hours.

And yes, I noticed Oz lurking on the fringes last night. Seems he was here for 10-15 minutes, but never said anything.

 

[WalnutHill]

Discussing differences is what this was originally about and as long as it's done without malice there is no reason not to enjoy a good debate and exchange of differences.

And that is why as an example with the vent conversation, I said that would be a good suggestion to make IF someone were having problems with chicks in that fashion. But since it wasn't my case, I would stick to what I have found works. When someone asks for help with something, I use what I have experienced over what I have heard as a recommendation and I ADD what other's have tried or other things that I have heard works. I think that it is better for people to hear and see an array of things that work for others so that they have options in front of them.

Take the co2 argument for example. The basis of that is the CO2 causes stress that in turn makes the embryo/chick stronger. It's not the co2 that makes them stronger, it is the stress. So how much stress is too much? Someone that has shipped eggs that have undergone an extreme amount of stress, would adding undo stress help or compromise? Someone like me who is not hands off-if you go by some people's philosophy I cause stress by "over candling". Is this why my chicks hatch out strong and I seldom have post hatch deaths-or is it the sav a chick I add to my water for every hatch? Don't know- but it's working, so why would I mess with it? When someone asks my opinion, I am going to base it on what I have experienced, but usually I will give other points of view.

If I had a hands off hatcher that was having weak small-hard to grow chicks I might say hey, Sally has a study about closing vents for co2 build up to help make them stronger. Check out the section in her article about it. But as a general question I am going to answer with "I keep mine out for the duration because that's what I have found works for me."

The challenge is that we cannot see what we cannot see. Much like practicing medicine over a telephone...it just isn't gonna work. Suggesting changes based on a post begging for help, when we have zero idea what actually happened from the time of lay to that moment in time, is just as likely to be bad as good.

Development of a chick is not based on a human clock, it's based on a biological clock. We can mess up that clock, sometimes with disastrous results, sometimes with minimal effect. We don't know the condition of the equipment, the environmental conditions, or how much meddling has taken place. Think of a cake...they definitely turn out best when you follow a recipe and don't open the oven until it's time to check for doneness. Set up the equipment, test it for several days, set the eggs, and walk away for a week.

Of course, home made incubators and low end incubators and poorly calibrated instruments can ruin the best of plans.

Advice, like pulling a car out of a ditch, is a hazardous occupation.

 

[meganhundley]

Nice!
That is awesome!

Nope not quite!! Lol!!
I did too when I first started.
..........hmmmmmm.
That's where mine stays all the time. No one messes wit it ....but me.
......you know what I meant.
You so smart!!!!!
Yay!!! Finally!
Agreed!
Oh no!!!
I remember this. It was sad.
I have had a couple....esp if we only count at lockdown. Lol!!!
. Why are your hands in the bator???!!!

They weren't lol, this was when I candled earlier before I noticed the pips, please don't smack me anymore, I have a black eye and hand prints all over my face now!