Should I try and kill this bobcat?

[Bigtom Turkey]

I actually don't do any shooting (except at the range) due to my age, getting close though. So my dad is in charge of shooting the animals in traps. And he doesn't like to take more then one shot. But I am deadly with a pellet gun gun
ETA to be more specific,l this reply was intended for @mowin

 

[Bigtom Turkey]

Killing every predator that goes for them is futile and immoral. We have a responsibility to keep the animals in our care safe.

But, animals don't feel the same as us. They don't fear death, they fear pain. And it is absolutely not immoral to kill an animal to protect your farm/property regardless of how you fence your animals (provided they stay on your property). And people hunt animals all the time. Yet coyote numbers have never been higher (I understand it is not the same for all species.) You choose to keep your animals safe by fencing, some of use choose to keep them safe by shooting. Also just because we own a gun doesn't mean we are trigger happy.
Thanks for having a civil discussion about it, with me and not just yelling at us.

 

[mowin]

I don't disagree entirely. I think you may have misunderstood part of where I'm coming from, so I want to highlight this point I made:

Like I said, I'm not saying we shouldn't ever shoot them- If my animals were in direct danger, I would probably react the same way.
But we shouldn't immediately jump to that, that should be a last resort in my opinion. If someone free ranges their animals, then they are going to end up with losses.
Killing every predator that goes for them is futile and immoral. We have a responsibility to keep the animals in our care safe.
Now, if the boundary was strong, and the birds were in a secure coop/pen/area, then I agree, sometimes there is no avoiding it.
But we'd better make sure that we have tried to prevent it to the best of our ability.
That is my view.

As for:

I take this back, it was said more out of emotion than rationality. But I still disagree just the same. This is just my view and not my argument.
To explain what I meant to say, in a more articulate way, I'll answer your question:

Animals do what they have to do to survive, they have instincts, and they can't be selective about the choices they make if they want to thrive.
They also aren't capable of seeing another animal's perspective, they don't often have an understanding of how their prey, or rivals would feel-- they lack the level of empathy that we have.
We also have more control than them, we have boundaries and weapons and farming structures to survive. And we are capable of helping them or opposing them.

If we cause them unnecessary suffering, or kill an animal hunting to feed it's babies, we understand the consequence of our actions.

Which is why- bringing it back to my original point- it isnt ideal. We should have more care with our choices, and only use killing them as a last resort. We ought to do everything we possibly can to keep our animals safe, so that we don't have to act so drastically.

It's irresponsible to throw an animal to the wolves, and then kill the wolves for eating it.
We should do everything we can first.
I'm sorry for the very long reply, but I have to make that clear.

If a predator is actively after my livestock, it's not just passing by. I have a 5' fence around my coops and backyard. Coops are only a few feet from the fence. I've seen coyotes, fox trot on by without a look. I've also had them start digging under the fence. Sometimes I'll let the dogs out to run them off. Other times they don't get a second chance. Racoons don't get a second chance at all. Dirty, disease carrying, destructive.

 

[cassie]

Just doing what I can to help ensure that there is one fewer coyote or bobcat to kill my chickens, turkeys, dogs, neighbor's sheep and goats, etc.

There is plenty of land and wild game to support these predators away from our homes. Feeding on livestock, pets and the contents of our trash cans has actually increased the coyote and bobcat populations near rural and suburban areas far beyond their pre-human densities. Coyotes and bobcats have bred close to homes and become bold enough to walk into backyards, garages and up onto front porches. They have attacked small dogs while the owner walked the dog on a leash in the middle of the day. They have attacked children and adults. Did you see the recent video of the guy who defended his wife and himself from a bobcat attack. He ended up shooting it, and it was rabid.

If a shepherd saw a coyote attacking a lamb and he shot the coyote, would you be critical of the shepherd?

Instead of quoting my post and making a snarky comment, why not defend the right of human-acclimated coyotes (and other predators) to kill livestock and pets and attack people?

Just a comment on coyotes. I used to live in an area of California where there were LOTS of coyotes. We would hear them very night and it was not uncommon to see one running across my pastures. I never lost one animal to a coyote. Not one. Why? Because coyotes are opportunists. If something is more trouble than it is worth they won't bother. I had livestock guardian dogs (Komondors) that regularly patrolled the property. I also had opossums, skunks, and raccoons. Never had any trouble with any of them either for the same reason. Plus, my chicken pen was fairly secure. I did on occasion let my chickens free range, and once in a while I would lose one to a hawk. We had lots of them, too and they didn't care about the dogs.

As for the shepherd, if he had guard dogs for his sheep it is unlikely he would lose the lamb to a predator. Now, I lived in a rural, not an urban, area and there was plenty of natural game for the coyotes and other predators. If an animal attacks you, that is a whole different story.

 

[mowin]

As for the shepherd, if he had guard dogs for his sheep it is unlikely he would lose the lamb to a predator.

I can assure you, he had losses even with LGD's. We're not talking a paddock of a couple acres, some were 50 acres. Lots of hills. Dogs couldn't be or see the entire area.

 

[BelovedBirds]

But, animals don't feel the same as us. They don't fear death, they fear pain. And it is absolutely not immoral to kill an animal to protect your farm/property regardless of how you fence your animals (provided they stay on your property). And people hunt animals all the time. Yet coyote numbers have never been higher (I understand it is not the same for all species.) You choose to keep your animals safe by fencing, some of use choose to keep them safe by shooting. Also just because we own a gun doesn't mean we are trigger happy.
Thanks for having a civil discussion about it, with me and not just yelling at us.

Same to you!
I will say one more thing, and that is I think animals absolutely do fear death- and, no, they don't understand the concept the same as we do- but every animal's goal is survival.
But with this, I think we shall have to agree to disagree!

 

[BelovedBirds]

Human beings ARE better than them. That is the way it was designed by the creator. Humans are at the TOP of the food chain, for a reason. Humans are the far superior intellect species on earth. We are the protectors, providers and procreaters by design..
If livestock/poultry owners are compared, by numbers, to the population of viable predators it is laughable to think depopulation of "hundreds" does harm since most multiply more predators in 5s and some 3 - 4 times a year.
It's simple logic.

And that creator gave us dominion, right?
That doesn't mean we get to throw our weight around. That means we have RESPONSIBILITY for the planet. This is our home, this is His creation and we have to respect it.

 

[BelovedBirds]

Over the years, the very offspring from the yotes and cats killed have multiplied by the hundreds. The hundreds killed has not caused one slight down shift in population. I wonder if a bobcat or coyote attacked the highly sensitive, predator supporters one evening, would they still believe in co-existance? Doubtful, I say.

oh, I would. Ive been attacked by MANY animals, and I dont blame any, not one bit.
But please note that I have been perfectly civil in this conversation, so please return us the same respect.

 

[BelovedBirds]

As humans, we do what we have to do to ensure our animals survive. Afterall, we took them as ours, they depend on us to protect to them. It is our right and our privilege to protect the innocent pets that are not predatory.
Agree to disagree sounded great in previous post

I agreed to disagree with one, two, people but if someone else replies to me, I will answer them...
Yes I agree with you, we should protect them. So we should build a secure boundary and a secure pen/coop for them, right? And take all possible measures to ensure they're safe. BEFORE resorting to killing wildlife.
I stand by what I've said.

 

[BelovedBirds]

Exactly. Dominion.
Dominion over ALL living creatures. We are created to be superior, we do have the right to protect, provide and procreate. Respect it...
LoL.
So, they get to throw their weight around, over the creation?
Do you honestly believe that was part of the plan?

You have a bizarre outlook, and seem to be ignoring what I'm saying.
Just go read the start of Genesis I guess

Agree to disagree.