Show off your Delawares! *PIC HEAVY*

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
I have researched this and found it is not a good idea. Maggots from rotting meat can cause botulism. I will look for some sources.

 

[speckledhen]

Kathy is correct. Botulism is a possibility when you allow your birds to eat maggots from rotting flesh.

 

[HorizonSon]

The only incidences I read about were from a crop full of rotten grain combined with maggots. Or from old roadkill. Or from a large animal that takes too long for the maggots to work down (thus becoming "old road kill")... Those are the only times that I have read it occurring...

My plan in to use chicken guts from a freshly processed chicken. There will be no hide to hinder the "blowing" of eggs, nor the feeding of the larvae. It will be completely consumed rather quickly!... Many, many, people have had great success with this "system"... The only concerns being as I mentioned. Use small quantities of fresh "meat".

ETA: If still concerned, and you have other livestock such as cows, you can use some fresh steamy hot dung instead.

 

[Serrin]

I'll look around on Google after I finish here David, but now I'm a bit concerned about this botulism issue. I would think that horse or cow dung would carry an even greater risk of being contaminated with the botulism bacteria than I would fresh chicken entrails.

It's already a haven for E-coli and a number of other nasty ickies! *shudder*

If there is a way around the contamination issue, it's surely worth pursuing!

 

[HorizonSon]

Just know that it is an ancient concept. Nothing new to it at all. Chickens have been picking bugs out of feces and eating dead animals and anything moving in them for thousands of years. I'm not worried at all; and I live in a very moldy and bacteria-rich area.

I'm looking forward to this as soon as it warms up enough for fly larvae

 

[HorizonSon]

It would be kind of me to add that I am not raising pedigree chickens; they are NOT pets; they are livestock. Really fun, adorable, livestock. I will not be heartbroken if I lose a bird, like many would ne. ill be ticked, but not heartbroken. The tiny tiny risk is FAR outweighed by the potential of supplement feed... Our birds free-range. Eventually; down the road, not even newborn chicks will have any type of commercial feed...

...I'm a city boy... Gone old school...

 

[kathyinmo]

For anyone interested, here are a few articles on botulism from maggots feeding on dead meat...

from here: http://www.archive.org/stream/avianbotulism00unitrich/avianbotulism00unitrich_djvu.txt

The Botulism Cycle

Favorable environmental conditions occur in the tissues of decaying animal and insect carcasses. The decomposition process uses up all available oxygen in the carcass, creating anaerobic conditions. Bacterial spores ingested during the life of the animal germinate after death. As the bacteria multiply and die, toxin is released.

Outbreaks of avian botulism occur when the toxin is taken in by birds. The die-off may begin as birds feed directly on invertebrate carcasses that contain the toxin, or as a result of feeding on live maggots of flesh-flies and blowflies, Flies lay their eggs on dead vertebrates, and the resulting maggots store botulinal toxin in their bodies as they consume the carcass. More than 5,000 maggots can be produced by a single bird carcass; consumption of just two to five toxin-bearing maggots is often enough to kill a duck!


from here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7451318

Type C botulism on a game farm resulted in the death of approximately 320 pheasants in 8 adjacent pens. Maggots of the genera Calliphora and Wohlfahrtia from 1 dead pheasant were the probable source of toxin for the other birds, and maggot migration before pupation probably resulted in the spread of the disease between pens. Toxin was not isolated from the serum of sick or dead birds, but was isolated from their spleens and livers as well as from maggots.

from here: http://www.fws.gov/saltonsea/botulism.html

Mode of transmission

Toxin production takes place in decaying animal carcasses. Flies deposit eggs on carcasses, which are fed upon by resulting maggots. These maggots then concentrate the toxin, and the toxic maggots are ingested by birds. These birds then die, leading to the proliferation of more maggots. As the cycle accelerates, major die-offs occur. Fish eating birds, such as pelicans, are believed to get sick when they eat fish that have concentrated the toxin in their intestines. These dying fish become easy prey for the birds that then ingest fatal doses of the toxin.

from here: http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26493--,00.html

Type C toxin occurs in carcasses of dead invertebrates, in the flesh of birds dying of botulism, and in maggots feeding on toxic carcasses.

from here: http://www.avianweb.com/botulism.html

Birds either ingest the toxin directly or may eat invertebrates (e.g. chironomids, fly larvae) containing the toxin. Invertebrates are not affected by the toxin and store it in their body. A cycle develops in a botulism outbreak when fly larvae (maggots), feed on animal carcasses and ingest toxin. Ducks that consume toxin-laden maggots can develop botulism after eating as few as 3 or 4 maggots.

 

[rancher hicks]

Quote:
There is a reason poultry people changed the way they did things. Without proper research "chickens picking bugs out of feces" is rather sceptical. Not only are you running a risk in feeding maggots to your chickens you are taking a risk eating eggs from these birds as well. Like I said there is a reason poultry people changed the way they did things. Folks live longer today because they made some healthy changes. One of them is how they fed their livestock. Yes I know not all change is good but some is.

I would not buy meat or eggs from someone who I knew fed their chickens some of the stuff I read on here.

 

[HorizonSon]

Okay, okay.... This is much more safe and should work fairly well where I live (barely):


Black Soldier Fly, White Magic


It even fits into our developing "theme"

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
I totally agree with you. Another thing is compost. Some people actually think it is safe to allow their chickens to eat in the compost pile. This is just as dangerous for botulism. I know about botulism first hand. I have had enough cases of it here .... saved some, lost some. I hate it! It usually happens just after rain (of course).