Congrats on the hatch trilyn
How is everyone doing?
How is everyone doing?
Show off your Delawares! *PIC HEAVY*
- Thread starter delawaregirl09
- Start date
Ok NEW SUBJECT. WHAT IS IT WITH SAND HILL PRES. AND THEIR DESCRIPTION OF THE DELAWARE?
So I got the catalog and i'm readin and this is what it says.
"They are a fast grower, lay huge brown eggs, have moderately large single comb with five well defined points, WHITE WITH GRAY/BLACK CUCKOO NECK, TAIL AND WING FEATHERS. ......................" quote.
EXCUSE ME?!!!! This is completely untrue. DELAWARES DO NOT HAVE ANY CUCKOO PATTERN IN THEM WHATSOEVER AND YOU CAN BE SURE SAND HILL WILL HEAR FROM ME!
Now from the SOP page 59 first paragraph and I quote: "with the result they became almost white, showing a slight indication of BARRING IN THE HACKLE, PRIMARIES SECONDARIES AND TAIL. "
page 60 and I quote Color- Male: Neck: Hackle - web of feather white, crossed with irregular indications of BLACK BARRING, quill and shaft, white. Front of Neck - white. Back and Saddle - white.
Tail: Main tail showing irregular indication of BLACK and WHITE BARRING, BLACK predominating. Sickles and Coverts - showing irregular indistinct BLACK and WHITE BARRING; quills and shafts withe.
Wings: Fronts , bows and coverts- white. Primaries and secondaries - showing irregular indication of BLACK and WHITE BARRING, the BLACK predominating; quill and shaft white.
Female is similar but my point being that the Cuckoo pattern and the Delaware barring are not the same.
According to Storey's illustrated Guide to Poultry breeds.
Cuckoo: plumage is bluish white barred with irregular light and dark bars. Female is slightly darker than male. (notice bluish white, not black and white or gray and white or blue and white)
Barred: feathers are crossed with sharply defined bars of one color (usually black or slate) against another (usually cream or white). Bars can be irregular in size or uniform throughout the feather. A females bars are generally narrower than those of a male.
If the Delaware has the Cuckoo pattern why not just say so. Or are Cuckoo and Barring interchangeable? However even if they were there is no gray in the Delaware. There is a distinct difference between the Cuckoo Marans and the Barred Rock patterns.
Sand Hill is misleading people. IMO or am I wrong? What is the consensus on this? Before I make a fool of myself, which in my case isn't unusual, but at my age why should I care.
So I got the catalog and i'm readin and this is what it says.
"They are a fast grower, lay huge brown eggs, have moderately large single comb with five well defined points, WHITE WITH GRAY/BLACK CUCKOO NECK, TAIL AND WING FEATHERS. ......................" quote.
EXCUSE ME?!!!! This is completely untrue. DELAWARES DO NOT HAVE ANY CUCKOO PATTERN IN THEM WHATSOEVER AND YOU CAN BE SURE SAND HILL WILL HEAR FROM ME!
Now from the SOP page 59 first paragraph and I quote: "with the result they became almost white, showing a slight indication of BARRING IN THE HACKLE, PRIMARIES SECONDARIES AND TAIL. "
page 60 and I quote Color- Male: Neck: Hackle - web of feather white, crossed with irregular indications of BLACK BARRING, quill and shaft, white. Front of Neck - white. Back and Saddle - white.
Tail: Main tail showing irregular indication of BLACK and WHITE BARRING, BLACK predominating. Sickles and Coverts - showing irregular indistinct BLACK and WHITE BARRING; quills and shafts withe.
Wings: Fronts , bows and coverts- white. Primaries and secondaries - showing irregular indication of BLACK and WHITE BARRING, the BLACK predominating; quill and shaft white.
Female is similar but my point being that the Cuckoo pattern and the Delaware barring are not the same.
According to Storey's illustrated Guide to Poultry breeds.
Cuckoo: plumage is bluish white barred with irregular light and dark bars. Female is slightly darker than male. (notice bluish white, not black and white or gray and white or blue and white)
Barred: feathers are crossed with sharply defined bars of one color (usually black or slate) against another (usually cream or white). Bars can be irregular in size or uniform throughout the feather. A females bars are generally narrower than those of a male.
If the Delaware has the Cuckoo pattern why not just say so. Or are Cuckoo and Barring interchangeable? However even if they were there is no gray in the Delaware. There is a distinct difference between the Cuckoo Marans and the Barred Rock patterns.
Sand Hill is misleading people. IMO or am I wrong? What is the consensus on this? Before I make a fool of myself, which in my case isn't unusual, but at my age why should I care.
Hey Rott1 and Pink!
OMG, I have been reading ALL day and am only up to page 80. I will never get caught up!
OMG, I have been reading ALL day and am only up to page 80. I will never get caught up!
Quote:
I have a few of their Delawares. While they are really attractive and healthy birds, have that Del personality and have good stocky bodies, they have the black v's in their hackles rather than the barring called for in the SOP.
Their catalog description is a closer description of their own birds than it is of the Delaware SOP. That might have been intentional or an accident.
I think Sand Hill are good people, and it seems like lately everyone wants to beat them up. I do not think they are trying to mislead anyone, just sometimes their wording is odd. And of course we buyers sometimes read into it what we want to.
I am aware that they do not show, so they cannot display show statistics to prove their stock is SOP. They have no pics of parent stock, so we cannot judge for ourselves.
I look at the number of breeds in their catalog, but I cannot imagine that they are close to SOP on ALL those breeds! There would be no reason to be since they do not show. So I assume that they a perpetuating/propagating breeds that can use the help to survive. A worthwhile project, they have perhaps got too many breeds going to do a SOP job of it. There are only a couple of people on that farm, you know?
I have to say if someone was looking for really good SOP Delaware to start a show flock with, I would not know where to direct them (hatchery wise I mean, I would tell them to check with breeders at a show). I would let them know what my experience with Sand Hill was and let them go from there.
If you want to tell them their description of a Delaware does not match SOP, do it kindly. I would not assume they are shysters.
I have a few of their Delawares. While they are really attractive and healthy birds, have that Del personality and have good stocky bodies, they have the black v's in their hackles rather than the barring called for in the SOP.
Their catalog description is a closer description of their own birds than it is of the Delaware SOP. That might have been intentional or an accident.
I think Sand Hill are good people, and it seems like lately everyone wants to beat them up. I do not think they are trying to mislead anyone, just sometimes their wording is odd. And of course we buyers sometimes read into it what we want to.
I am aware that they do not show, so they cannot display show statistics to prove their stock is SOP. They have no pics of parent stock, so we cannot judge for ourselves.
I look at the number of breeds in their catalog, but I cannot imagine that they are close to SOP on ALL those breeds! There would be no reason to be since they do not show. So I assume that they a perpetuating/propagating breeds that can use the help to survive. A worthwhile project, they have perhaps got too many breeds going to do a SOP job of it. There are only a couple of people on that farm, you know?
I have to say if someone was looking for really good SOP Delaware to start a show flock with, I would not know where to direct them (hatchery wise I mean, I would tell them to check with breeders at a show). I would let them know what my experience with Sand Hill was and let them go from there.
If you want to tell them their description of a Delaware does not match SOP, do it kindly. I would not assume they are shysters.
My concern is not that folks are getting show quality stock since birds do not have to be show quality stock and the SOP does not give this so much as a rule but a guideline.
That said if you order a Delaware or any other breed you have the right to expect it to BE that breed. Not a mix of other breeds, that the hatchery has decided it to be.
In two years time I've managed to acquire through breeding nearly 70 chicks from 4 hens. All look like the SOP though not show quality they do not have the "gray" as described by Sand Hill. Unfortunately folks, myself included have been duped into thinking they are ordering Delawares only to get this.
instead of this. While not the heaviest of my girls clearly barred to the SOP. This pullets was young at the time. See what I mean? You should not expect Del #1 which came from Ideal hatchery and is over a year old.
If I can acquire that many chicks in two years it seems to me the hatcheries can do good enough to supply their customers. On the other hand Sand Hill must be selling to another hatchery as they are sold out for the entire 2011 year. Does anyone know why?
According to their statement they are trying to select for large sized eggs. My Dels lay the largest of all the breeds I have. I recently had to tape the carton closed cue to them being so big. Not only that they've laid very well in the cold and barely skipped a beat through the molt. I'm not an expert poultry person so if I can do it so can the big guys without muddying up the gene pool.
I just think folks should get what their paying for and not be mislead.
That said if you order a Delaware or any other breed you have the right to expect it to BE that breed. Not a mix of other breeds, that the hatchery has decided it to be.
In two years time I've managed to acquire through breeding nearly 70 chicks from 4 hens. All look like the SOP though not show quality they do not have the "gray" as described by Sand Hill. Unfortunately folks, myself included have been duped into thinking they are ordering Delawares only to get this.
instead of this. While not the heaviest of my girls clearly barred to the SOP. This pullets was young at the time. See what I mean? You should not expect Del #1 which came from Ideal hatchery and is over a year old.
If I can acquire that many chicks in two years it seems to me the hatcheries can do good enough to supply their customers. On the other hand Sand Hill must be selling to another hatchery as they are sold out for the entire 2011 year. Does anyone know why?
According to their statement they are trying to select for large sized eggs. My Dels lay the largest of all the breeds I have. I recently had to tape the carton closed cue to them being so big. Not only that they've laid very well in the cold and barely skipped a beat through the molt. I'm not an expert poultry person so if I can do it so can the big guys without muddying up the gene pool.
I just think folks should get what their paying for and not be mislead.
Quote:
I think AND this is just my opinion - - - but the description in their catalog should match their birds NOT the SOP.
It lets everyone know where their birds are - - - not where they should be. I think that is the more HONEST way of doing business.
I think AND this is just my opinion - - - but the description in their catalog should match their birds NOT the SOP.
It lets everyone know where their birds are - - - not where they should be. I think that is the more HONEST way of doing business.
- Jul 21, 2010
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Quote:
I think AND this is just my opinion - - - but the description in their catalog should match their birds NOT the SOP.
It lets everyone know where their birds are - - - not where they should be. I think that is the more HONEST way of doing business.
I agree with this. I think one hatchery does this too
I think AND this is just my opinion - - - but the description in their catalog should match their birds NOT the SOP.
It lets everyone know where their birds are - - - not where they should be. I think that is the more HONEST way of doing business.
I agree with this. I think one hatchery does this too
Quote:
I think AND this is just my opinion - - - but the description in their catalog should match their birds NOT the SOP.
It lets everyone know where their birds are - - - not where they should be. I think that is the more HONEST way of doing business.
I will agree with that as long as the customer is told and knows what they are getting. Ideal did not explain that and four of their breeds were not what I expected. Two single combed SLW, a red frzi with black or blue in her, CM's with a green sheen that don't lay dark eggs and of course the delawares.
The SLW single combs are from the development of the breed, my reading has told me. The red frzi is named Frenchy and very popular. Since I don't breed to the SOP on the CM I'm not to upset, except to say I drove a long way for more and paid $10 a chick. I've since learned that a dark egg is not something one can guarantee.
Just know I'm not perpetuating Ideal birds, when it comes to Delawares. I do realize this forum is more for hobby people than professional breeders. Greenfire Farms would not do well here, as expectations here are not very high. I'm learning the average person does not care so much.
I think AND this is just my opinion - - - but the description in their catalog should match their birds NOT the SOP.
It lets everyone know where their birds are - - - not where they should be. I think that is the more HONEST way of doing business.
I will agree with that as long as the customer is told and knows what they are getting. Ideal did not explain that and four of their breeds were not what I expected. Two single combed SLW, a red frzi with black or blue in her, CM's with a green sheen that don't lay dark eggs and of course the delawares.
The SLW single combs are from the development of the breed, my reading has told me. The red frzi is named Frenchy and very popular. Since I don't breed to the SOP on the CM I'm not to upset, except to say I drove a long way for more and paid $10 a chick. I've since learned that a dark egg is not something one can guarantee.
Just know I'm not perpetuating Ideal birds, when it comes to Delawares. I do realize this forum is more for hobby people than professional breeders. Greenfire Farms would not do well here, as expectations here are not very high. I'm learning the average person does not care so much.
Tim asked me to state my opinion here. Sandhill, as far as I've seen, has average Delawares. Some say they are slightly better than the big hatcheries' Dels, but I'm not convinced that they are, at least from the ones I've seen. If you want to try an order and then see if you can get one or two birds out of those that are suitable for adding new blood to your flock, there's nothing wrong with that, but you can do that with Ideal or McMurray, too. I don't really know that much about their lines, but their description is what JoAnn said, more adescription of their birds than SOP birds.
No, they are not cuckoo barred. It's barring as in the Barred Rock, not Cuckoo Marans. Not sure why they'd say that, but I heard of a breeder who gets big bucks for his hatching eggs and chicks who said they have cuckoo barring, too. That is incorrect.
No, they are not cuckoo barred. It's barring as in the Barred Rock, not Cuckoo Marans. Not sure why they'd say that, but I heard of a breeder who gets big bucks for his hatching eggs and chicks who said they have cuckoo barring, too. That is incorrect.
Going to order Deli Bantams from a hatchery this year
It's always been like my secret dream, and I can't Wait to get them! Wish me luck!
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