show quality speckled sussex ??

[3riverschick]

Hey Karen, Let me throw this out there and see what you think....

I have noticed that many of the SS roosters that I see have low wing sets. I looked at your links and saw that the Sussex drawings for the APA show a long back and a horizontal wing set. Whereas, the langshan photo shows a really short back and an almost vertical wing set..... Do you think the reason for the large number of low wing sets in the SS roos is due to their backs being too short?

If that is the case, could we correct the issue by finding a really long back female to mate the male to?
=========
Good question, Lisa.
I don't have a quick answer, but I can look around and see what falls out of the knowledge tree.
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

 

[GhostRider65]

Hi,
 I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I can see why you like this boy. His coloring is quite nice.
The essence of Sussex is breed type. Color always comes last. Breed type is inexorbinantly linked
to the production virtues  which make the breed a Sussex. "Type makes the breed, color makes the variety".
Take a look at this rendering for the 2010
APA SOP.
http://katherineplumer.com/closeups/poultry/SOP/LLightSussex.html
 Perhaps the hardest thing to breed for in Sussex is the long body. and the long back.
Here's a pic of a Croad Langshan, a more upright breed.  http://tinyurl.com/d25ey8r
You can compare the 3pics by just opening the Langshan and Light Sussex pics, then 
re-sizing the three pics side-by-side on your PC screen.
See the similarity of the Langshan to your boy as opposed to the Sussex male? It doesn't matter what color variety
the Sussex are, the type must all be identical. I understand completely how hard it is to get a
quality start in a heritage breed. Been there more than several times, sigh.
 Ok, so many experts say color comes thru the male and type, structure thru the female.
Whether one subscribes to that or not, if one is going to breed more than 2 generations from
their flock, choice of breed type in the male is very important because he will sire females who
will pass type on to their chicks and so on. If one wants to cement  quality breed type in their Sussex,
it has to be coming from both sides of the pedigree because of the sex-linked traits in poultry.

  You can breed, using this boy and will still be struggling with type next generation. Or you can see about
getting an adult from one of the Tony Albrittion (ID) , Overton (OH ) or Walt Reichert (KY) flocks.
 Such a male would be from a vintage line-bred gene pool with breed type which has
been winnowed for defects and set for virtues.
  Breed your girls to him and then breed the female get back to him. The quality of your birds should rise quite quickly.
Here's a book by a revered poultryman of the old school. A veteran breeder and APA judge who explains
how to do this. The procedure is called in and out breeding. He also has real-world tips on breeding the speckled breeds.
http://archive.org/details/cu31924003158312
 Now I realize you probably aren't having fun reading this. I understand completely. I guess I could just stay silent
or start being "overly polite" when you ask about your birds. However, I would rather share years of research with you.
 I guess if that makes waves, so be it.
I remember the poultry folk who educated me when I didn't want to hear the news. It saved me lots of heartache later.
 Warm Regards,
 Karen

I did not know what a Langshan was before I clicked that link, a very nice looking bird to my standards..... which I don't show so are really just the type I like, probably why I like my rooster, his more upright chesty body type is good to me though it is not to standard..... I do like his size and he is yet not a year old so he will probably top out at 9 lbs, my hens are on the smaller side except 2, and only 1 of those has the long back.... the other with great color is short backed like the roo....... I really like my SS because I have a very large soft spot for speckles, 1 of my my dogs is speckled my horses are paints and Appies, except my hubbies standardbred.... I love spotted birds my other favorite is a Delaware, and Ancona's except I hate the Ancona's huge comb for our climate, and I love Welch Harlequin ducks......... anything spotted I see I usually manage to buy at some point...LOL
No worries about the critique, no harm no fowl, no pun intended.hehehe
I wanted an opinion and you gave me an honest one.......TY..... I was looking for a another reason to butcher the bugger so I would actually do it............ 1 of my other males that my neighbor took for her girls also turned out to be mean, so I knew it would be in the genetics.......... these boys were all raised together and the SS were my only mean ones, of several different breeds, Dels, BR, BO, EE, WR, and Wyandottes.
I would love a roo of good quality, and this boy for a hatchery bird is quite nice, but a meany is not acceptable and I have tried to make myself see it for several weeks now.......... just couldn't, because he was a very nice rooster, I called him my BF cuz he would try to feed me and he talked to me all the time, but at about 20 weeks he started going the long route down hill.... and no matter what he would not go back.
I havew another question about girls, they are a year and the other 3 are 11 months, but there egg size is rather small, and much not bigger than a pullet egg...... is that normal? I thought I read somewhere they laid large eggs? These are maybe medium, but none of my girls have gone through a molt yet either, and my neighbor said that they will increase in size after a molt? is that true?
Well anyway Ty for your info, though I knew, I guess love is really blind................. Kim

 

[fowlman01]

Hey Karen, Let me throw this out there and see what you think....

I have noticed that many of the SS roosters that I see have low wing sets. I looked at your links and saw that the Sussex drawings for the APA show a long back and a horizontal wing set. Whereas, the langshan photo shows a really short back and an almost vertical wing set..... Do you think the reason for the large number of low wing sets in the SS roos is due to their backs being too short?

If that is the case, could we correct the issue by finding a really long back female to mate the male to?

SS and Langshan's should have horizontal wing settings. That is just a poor example of a Lanshan. Not too many breeds call for a wing setting below horizontal.
I don't think it has anything to do with length of back or even lack of exercise, it is poor attention to breeding.

Walt

 

[math ace]

SS and Langshan's should have horizontal wing settings. That is just a poor example of a Lanshan. Not too many breeds call for a wing setting below horizontal.
I don't think it has anything to do with length of back or even lack of exercise, it is poor attention to breeding.

Walt

Thank you Walt for answering my question.

 

[math ace]

I havew another question about girls, they are a year and the other 3 are 11 months, but there egg size is rather small, and much not bigger than a pullet egg...... is that normal? I thought I read somewhere they laid large eggs? These are maybe medium, but none of my girls have gone through a molt yet either, and my neighbor said that they will increase in size after a molt? is that true?
Well anyway Ty for your info, though I knew, I guess love is really blind................. Kim

SS eggs are suppose to be medium in size. I found this link that said..

Speckled Sussex

The Speckled Sussex the oldest variety of this breed, is of medium size, in the heavy breed class and a layer of light brown or tinted eggs. They lay well as a utility bird although the egg is small relative to their size. Its plumage colour is a delight to the eye being of dark mahogany base colour with individual feathers ending in a white tip separated from the rest of the feathers by a black bar. These birds are slow to develop taking 8 to 9 months to mature but are worth the wait as this variety combines beauty with utility.
The colours found in Sussex are Brown, Buff, Coronation, Light, Red, Speckled, Silver, and White. The Sussex whatever its colour should be graceful. The eyes are red in the darker varieties but are orange in the lighter ones. They have a medium sized single comb. The earlobes are red and the legs and skin are white in every variety
http://www.poulacapplepoultry.com/html/sussex.html



Most of the hatchery sites that I visited said LARGE egg size, BUT I think the Medium egg size is correct!

 

[GhostRider65]

Ty MathAce, for the info on egg size, mine are hatchery birds so that is most likely where I seen that they laid large eggs, they aren't really a small egg and I think slightly larger than a medium, but next to my BSL and Dels, the egg looks tiny..... as in my Dels and BSL lay a extra large dark brown sometimes speckled egg, most days I can't close the large size egg carton......... I do love these birds and I wish that hatcheries were a little better with quality, instead of quantity.
I really think it would not be that hard for them to get a better quality bird, seeing as they do hatch and sell lots, everyone loves this breed that I have talked too. I think the4y just don't give a crap, because money is more the issue with them. TY again Kim

 

[math ace]

Folks in Indiana, Tennessee, and Kentucky..... I have some really Good News!

Walt Reichert has EXTRA Speckled Sussex started chicks. These are not Day-olds. Walt is a breeder who placed at many shows last year with his Speckled Sussex. His name and pics of his birds were in the Poultry Press several times last year.

Walt is not a hatchery style breeder. He does NOT hatch all year long. He hatches in the Spring and this year's hatch was bountiful. He does NOT hatch in the fall. I believe he is done hatching for the year. So when these chicks are gone, he will not have any more until next year.

I spoke to him the other day and offered to let folks know that he has extras this year, if any one is looking. He is in Simpsonville, KY (zip code 40067). He does not normally ship. This is the breeder that I have been waiting for a year to get hatching eggs from. If I was closer, I would be traveling to get the started chicks myself!

If you are interested, his

email: [email protected]

phone: 502-722-2951

OBTW.... If you do get chicks from Walt, PLEASE, drop me a PM and let me know.

 

[cherylcohen]

I'm getting that gorgeous girl that is in Poultry Press and another trio from him, in addition to several dozen eggs. I'm so excited to be starting to work with this breed on the west coast!!

Lisa I hope you are getting a bunch of those chicks for yourself

 

[cowchick11]

Whoever has or is getting chicks please remember to take photos!!!

I will be taking more photos this weekend. The SS are in their first set of full feathers (looking more like chickens) and my other chicks that are about a week behind are super ugly right now. You will see in the photos.