show quality speckled sussex ??

[RustyHen]

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Thank you neftaball,
I was going to order with him too he had lovely birds, and because he is very close to us we could have driven there.

 

[stormylady]

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I bought my eggs from Bargain, and only 2 hatched out, Uno and Dottie, Uno by no means looks like a show quality Hen she has way too much white apparently, however her sister Dottie came much closer to the SOP as I understand it, but I know this has nothing to do with the SOP, but they are the friendlist birds ever and the ones that sold me on the SS breed. They did get fairly large, but it took them a long time to grow up. Hope this helps, Sandy

 

[Orange Ribbon]

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Thanks for sharing Sandy. I understand that SS are supposed to be slow growers, and I'm sure the Garry's SS are better than hatchery birds. Mrs. Garry is such a nice person, and I didn't intend anything negative in asking about her birds. Even if they are not SOP I am still plumb tickled to have them. One has to start somewhere, and you never know but one or more could happen to turn out just right. I will probably get some more from her if I get the chance. AFTER I get a better incubator!

Math Ace, thanks for the reply. I candled my eggs again this evening. I just couldn't resist. Out of 7 Delaware and 19 SS, I have 1 Delaware and 11 SS still going so far. I still can't see inside clearly, but from the size of and shape of the dark area, 10 of them look to be right on track. I even saw one of them move which got me all excited. The other two don't look quite right, but I left them in and will check them again in a couple of days or so to make sure. At least they don't stink. Man, I've got a lot of time and effort in those eggs. I sure hope they make it.

I wish I could see the picture in the link neftaball gave, but the page freezes up before I can see it. Gotta love dial up. NOT!

 

[math ace]

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You said a mouth full here Orange Ribbon.

1.) YES - -Thank you Sandy for joining us and sharing.
2.) SLOW GROWING - -
I don't think they are suppose to be SLOW growers.... They aren't suppose to be FAST growers either!
They were originally a DUAL purpose breed with emphsis on eating. I did some googling this morning and came up with this .. .

Without strong improving selection they will be slow slow at putting on meat, while quick enough at creating lots of skeleton and feather, so it can be months before they are a good meal, by which time they are boot leather tough.


It is now rare to find any true Utilitarian Sussex - a type we have been working on, to be well suited for a balance of backyard practicality and production. The selection behind these has improved the egg numbers significantly, but more important has developed the walking dinner - hens and cockerels who, you can see, are good weights, as they come towards you. By selecting the right birds to put their genetics into the next generation, the strain has been improved to produce a good weight before 18 weeks old. This makes the meat useful for a much wider range of recipes than old, over 5 month old birds, who are cassoulet and little more.


This goes back to the SIZE issues. Speckled Sussex are suppose to be BIGGER than we are seeing. For Show Quality birds, we will need to cull for SIZE.


3.) I did not mean to imply anything negative about Bargain and her birds....
I just think the OWNER of the birds has the right to decide if they want their bird critiqued.
I think it is unfair to openly evaluate / analyze someone else's bird without their permission.
NOW, when you hatch and raise chicks from someone . . . they are YOUR birds and if YOU want a critique on them..... then just ask.

4.) YOU NEVER KNOW what will happen.... Even the breeders of show quality birds acknowledge that it takes a LOT of hatching to hatch a winner.
That is why so many people are disgrunted when they pay $$ $$ $$ for hatching eggs from show quality stock and hatch out some to not
so show quality chicks.... This thread is about KNOWING what show quality looks like. That way when you start breeding you will KNOW
what you need to fix.

 

[Orange Ribbon]

Quote from Math Ace:

"3.) I did not mean to imply anything negative about Bargain and her birds....
I just think the OWNER of the birds has the right to decide if they want their bird critiqued.
I think it is unfair to openly evaluate / analyze someone else's bird without their permission.
NOW, when you hatch and raise chicks from someone . . . they are YOUR birds and if YOU want a critique on them..... then just ask.


4.) YOU NEVER KNOW what will happen.... Even the breeders of show quality birds acknowledge that it takes a LOT of hatching to hatch a winner.
That is why so many people are disgrunted when they pay $$ $$ $$ for hatching eggs from show quality stock and hatch out some to not
so show quality chicks.... This thread is about KNOWING what show quality looks like. That way when you start breeding you will KNOW
what you need to fix."

I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree about critiquing other breeder's birds. We critique hatchery chickens all the time on this site, so why not someone else's? Since this thread is KNOWING what show quality birds look like, then I want to know if someone else's birds fit that bill. It isn't like we have a lot to go on here. I would like to think a breeder who is raising a rare breed would be just as interested in making the best of that breed as much as anyone else. I know it wouldn't bother me any as long as someone isn't just being negative to be mean. And what if I got some birds from say, "Joe's Speckled Sussex Farm," and posted a picture of MY BIRDS and added, "I got these from Joe's Speckled Sussex Farm? It is still critiquing "Joe's" chickens. By openly selling a chicken you are obliging yourself to be critiqued.

Those of us on this thread happen to want to get the standard back, and talking about other's birds in relation to that isn't going to harm anybody. Not everyone cares about breeding to a standard, they just want what is personally pleasing to their eye. Wouldn't it be a shame if everybody decided to order from a place that is going to be a disaster to the breed just because it isn't "politically correct" to say anything? Still, there are ways to convey even that without plumb downgrading somebody. Nothing said here has even remotely done that.

I am not at all being disrespectful toward anyone, just stating my opinion like others do. Speckled Sussex happen to be THE breed that appeals to me most after much study. Of all the chickens I have and may later own, this breed is going to be the one I will work at to improve/maintain if I can get a good flock of them. My intent is to learn, and with a shortage of information on SS around I see no contempt in using what ever is available to do that. Doing anything less makes ME feel that I PERSONALLY am not seriously giving it my all to do what is right. That is my .02 cents.

 

[snowbird]

Orange Ribbon, I agree 100% with what you have said. If someone is selling eggs and stock and posting pictures along with them then they are fair game as far as I am concerned. I will usually give a critique if asked. Don

 

[mrheinz77]

Don,
What's your thought on these? The cock is 8.5 lbs and an average hen is 7 lbs. They said these are from a show line.

Had you ever saw Harold Halbach's SS?
Thanks,
Jim

 

[math ace]

I view pictures as a sort of "COPY RIGHTED" material. It is their PHOTO. They posted it for THEIR use - - to sell or not to sell.
We do not go to "Ideals" web site and grab their photos.... ONCE you own the bird, it is yours and you may hold it to whatever standard you want to.


If those folks aren't advertising their birds as "show" quality birds.... then they are doing no harm and
don't need their feelings hurt by having their birds held to a higher standard than they were advertising.

If those folks are advertising them as "show" quality . . . then I think it would be OK to discuss the photos here.


People who post here need to be willing to hear negative things about THEIR birds....
Critiquing involves learning through feedback and negative feedback at that.
NOT EVERYONE is willing to learn that way......


Now if you want some feedback, discretely, about someone's stock.... then PM some one here.
Don has very graciously voluteered to provide feedback. I have found his EYE to be unbeatable.
He can spot a fault a mile away!

 

[math ace]

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THIS is WHY this thread was started.....Somebody shouldn't have to SAY something to you about QUALITY...... You should be able to KNOW quality when YOU SEE it.

This thread is about LEARNING how to evaluate the birds for yourself....... I don't want to rely on Don forever. I want to walk up to someone's stock and KNOW if it is any good.
I want to be able to LOOK at my own stock and KNOW what is still missing.

I have 11 pullets that are turning 4 - 5 months old right now. I am only waiting on the numbered leg bands to get here. After they arrive, I will post and Don will critique them for us.
I have another 10 pullets that are a month younger that we can critique soon. They are from a different breeder so they will have a whole new set of faults.
I have 8 cockerels just waiting for their chance at the camera..

If you want to have Bargain's birds critiqued .... just ask her first. She has the photo already uploaded and it should be no problem for her to post it here.

 

[snowbird]

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You must understand that Harold Halbach had several different breeds of show fowl. They were good show type fowl and not you typical hatchery fowl. Harold and Vi Halbach were both President of the APA at one time and son Jeff is President of ABA. These were just no hatchery fowl. Don