show quality speckled sussex ??

[mrheinz77]

MathAce and all other SS enthusiasts just a few comments and a challenge!
Does anyone know if Gary Overton got his birds from Rev. Ashbrook or if they had different lines?  Seems like Rev. Ashbrook was in there someplace.  I know that he is no longer breeding SS, but he is listed as a Master Breeder for SS.  I have read that it takes a min of 5 YEARS to call a line your own???   I am curious how long each of the people that are breeding now have been with their lines because as MathAce mentioned each breeder brings their own vision to the breed.  Perhaps as we are all getting our stock, some will choose to show and before we "put our stamp on the breed" we will be able to meet at shows to compare the current strains.  The only place that I have had any competition at a show so far with SS was at our Western WA State Fair but I never saw any of the other exhibitors to ask them what their source was for their birds.  BTW mine placed over the other birds   , I suspect that at least 2 or 3 were feed store birds.

With my set back of loosing the one cockerel that I had selected to retain for breeding I too am changing and altering my plans. I feel at this point like we should put up a challenge to ourselves.  I feel like I have 2 or 3 very nice pullets, I plan to weigh them again tomorrow if the weather cooperates, now that they have been laying for a few months.  I have been talking with Mr. Albritton about getting chicks from him at a March show were he usually sells chicks.  MathAce has an excellent cockerel and "sees" what is wrong with her pullets.  I know that others are also working on SS.  What if we thought of this as a fresh group of breeders that was trying to get a new breed/variety into the SOP?  I propose a challenge of a 5 year trial.  How far do you think we can get in 5 years?  Will we individually have a group of birds that looks fairly uniform?  What will we discover about ourselves and our breed and breeding as we get into our project?  What do you all think of this proposal?

I have had many years of breeding experience with my cattle, over 20 now!  I almost quit a few years ago when we lost 3 calves in 3 years.  Our herd is small 10-15 animals at a time only.  Lots of discussion with my family, vet,  and some with other breeders convinced me to keep going. I did a little bit of breeding with my bantam White Plymouth Rocks when I was in 4-H and FFA.  I can tell you that a solid color pattern is fairly easy in cattle to figure out, fairly easy in solid colored birds, and that the color pattern alone that we have selected to work with will be tough.  I say we attack it with the build the barn first in mind and see were five years takes us.  

I like your challenge as well.

Now I have a question on Speckling. What is preferred? I have 2 lnies. One has huge speckles and the other has small speckles. I was on another site and saw pictures of winners from Canada. They had the small speckles. The pictures of winners in the US have the big speckles. Are our Standards that different? If anybody wants the link to the other pictures, PM me (since its against the rules to link to other forums here).

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

I think it is more a matter of our birds do not have the desired black/green bar with a small tip. So, the judges are choosing which birds have a small bar and large white tips because those birds simply have the bar.

List of what a bird is pointed on:
1. Symmetry (4 pts.)
2. Weight or size (4 pts.)
3. Condition and Vigor (10 pts.)
4. Comb (5 pts.)
5. Beak (3 pts.)
6. Skull and Face (4 pts.)
7. Eyes (4 pts.)
8. Wattles (2 pts.)
9. Earlobes (4 pts.)
10. Neck (6 pts.)
11. Back (12 pts.)
12. Tail (8 pts.)
13. Wings (8 pts.)
14. Breast (10 pts.)
15. Body and Fluff (8 pts.)
16. Legs and Toes ( 8 pts.)

In each of these, other than the back in all colors, everything is based off of the shape of the bird. The Color is secondary. In white birds, there is not a single thing that measures more than 4 points for color. In the colored birds, the highest point is 6 based on color of the feathering alone.

Truly, the color of the Speckles Sussex is important, but not at the expense of the shape and body of the bird.

 

[silkieloverz123]

Wow i didnt kno all of that!^^ .......
-SilkieLoverz123

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Many people have the standard of perfection by the APA. It is an excellent reference to look back on when you question what you are looking to do in your breeding pens.

 

[Arielle]

I think it is more a matter of our birds do not have the desired black/green bar with a small tip. So, the judges are choosing which birds have a small bar and large white tips because those birds simply have the bar.

List of what a bird is pointed on:
1. Symmetry (4 pts.)
2. Weight or size (4 pts.)
3. Condition and Vigor (10 pts.)
4. Comb (5 pts.)
5. Beak (3 pts.)
6. Skull and Face (4 pts.)
7. Eyes (4 pts.)
8. Wattles (2 pts.)
9. Earlobes (4 pts.)
10. Neck (6 pts.)
11. Back (12 pts.)
12. Tail (8 pts.)
13. Wings (8 pts.)
14. Breast (10 pts.)
15. Body and Fluff (8 pts.)
16. Legs and Toes ( 8 pts.)

In each of these, other than the back in all colors, everything is based off of the shape of the bird. The Color is secondary. In white birds, there is not a single thing that measures more than 4 points for color. In the colored birds, the highest point is 6 based on color of the feathering alone.

Truly, the color of the Speckles Sussex is important, but not at the expense of the shape and body of the bird.

Thank you.

 

[cowchick11]

I like your challenge as well.
Now I have a question on Speckling. What is preferred? I have 2 lnies. One has huge speckles and the other has small speckles. I was on another site and saw pictures of winners from Canada. They had the small speckles. The pictures of winners in the US have the big speckles. Are our Standards that different? If anybody wants the link to the other pictures, PM me (since its against the rules to link to other forums here).

From my reading of older poultry books, what has been posted here, from talking to Mr. Albritton, and some of the judges that I had a chance to talk to this year...
The consences is that you should choose correctly shaped birds (correct angles too) that are dark (mahogany), with the least amount of solid white feathers (none would be great) and small/not very many white "diamonds" on the end of the feathers separated by the black bar. I have been told several times and read that the birds will gain more white each consecutive year. That makes it more important in breeding (so that you don't breed birds that are too white) than in the show room but the judges I showed under this year did not seem to like the really white birds.

 

[silkieloverz123]

I can't believe how smart some of you BYCers are!









-SilkieLoverz123

 

[cowchick11]

I weighed my pullets again today with the reluctant help of my brother. I needed the help to band my younger birds that were weighed for the first time, not SS. I have photos posted quite a few pages back of these 4.

The results are at approx. 36 weeks:
Orange # 81 - 4# 7 oz.
Orange # 80 - 4# 12 oz.
Orange # 83 - 5# 5 oz. (this girl has not been shown, I feel her color is a little bit light)
Orange # 78 - 5# 10 oz.

Pullet 6# x 20% = + or - 1.2 pounds = 4# 13 oz. to 7# 3 oz. (hope I did my math correctly, I was having some trouble converting pounds to ounces)
Hen 7# x 20% = + or - 1.4 pounds = 5 # 10 oz. to 8# 6 oz.

Standard weight on pullets is 6 pounds, hens are 7 pounds. I wish it stated in the SOP when the pullets should hit that weight or at least gave a range. In beef cattle we have a range for weaning weight and yearling weight (range in days from about 5 months to 7 months for weaning). These should be right on or really close at this point as they are over half way through their first/pullet year. I'm wondering if hen's weights are taken at the beginning, middle or end of their second year. Anyone know? I looked through my SOP and all I could find were the points taken off for being over or under. You can be within 20% of the weight in the SOP and still be O.K. See my math figures above.

I know a few others have birds that should be ready to post more weights soon, right? BTW I am posting in pounds and ounces because my fish scale reads out in pounds and ounces (closest/best I could do without using my bathroom scale and less than the $300 digital small animal scale I found). I should see if my brother can take some photos of us weighing the next time we do this. I have a plastic milk crate with hay twine attached at each corner and a sliding ring in the center of it all. I purchased a fish scale at my favorite local sporting goods store for about $22 (the $10 one did not do so well so traded it back in). It is hard to zero out sometimes but so far not bad.
Hope this helps!

 

[mountainvieworchards]

For weighing my birds, I use an inexpensive digital postal scale, there are lots of them now you can buy from Amazon or other business for about $25. They go up to 50 pounds and are great for weighing chickens, eggs, garden produce etc.

I just put a plastic bucket on top of it, tare it, and then place a chicken head down in the bucket, they hold still long enough to get a read.

I weighed my largest cockerel this weekend and he was 8 pounds even. I am expecting him to make close to 9 pounds as a rooster. He was hatched in May so he is about 7 months.

Andy

 

[math ace]

I am reactivating this thread - - -


I have three groups of young speckled sussex (ss) from two different places. The chicks are young 7 weeks - 3 months.
I am going to invite some folks over to this thread to help me learn what to look for with speckled sussex.

My birds may not be show quality, but I can still learn from them . . . . .

My focus is still on breeding or finding show quality speckled sussex. . . .

I hope some knowledgable people will join us and show us what we need to look for when deciding who to cull and who to keep in our flocks.

If you have an interest in speckled sussex, specifically breeding show quality speckled sussex - - COME JOIN US!

GENERAL SCALE OF POINTS FOR SHOWING . .. . .

Total Possible SHAPE Color
Symmetry 4 4

Weight or Size 4 4

Condition and Vigor 10 10

Comb 5 5

Beak 3 2 1

Skull and Face 4 3 1

Eyes 4 2 2

Wattles 2 2

Earlobes 4 2 2

Neck 6 1 5

Back 12 (WOW) 6 6

Tail 8 4 4

Wings 8 3 5

Breast 10 5 5

Body and Fluff 8 5 3

Legs and Toes 8 5 3


TOTAL 100 pts possible 63 for SHAPE 37 for COLOR

The above chart shows that almost 2/3 rds of the points are for SHAPE.... Color is important, but adds up to only a 1/3rd of the points.