show quality speckled sussex ??

[3goodeggs]

Thinking about getting some SS.
( I am posting so I will get this thread on my 'recent' list and won't have to keep searching for it.)
I have a lot of reading to do! I will ask questions after!

 

[Arielle]

Is anyone raising the SS for meat purposes???? WOuld really like to see some carcasses, perhaps come fall someone will have pics.

 

[Sunflowergirl]

Hello all! I have been reading on this thread. Fallen in love with the Speckled Sussex! I HOPE to be getting some SOP quality Speckled Sussex this coming spring (2015). I have 2 years of experience with hatchery chickens. Those chickens have all been re-homed and I have relocated. So I am starting afresh! I once saw a by-line on a fellow BYCer that said something to the effect that it costs the same to feed and care for poor quality chickens as it does quality ones, so why not start out with a higher standard!!! I like that!

My question: Since I am new to breeding chickens and selecting for the SOP, what are some recommended books/resources I could use to educate myself on all the ins and outs of doing that?

Thanks!

 

[3riverschick]

Hello all!

My question: Since I am new to breeding chickens and selecting for the SOP, what are some recommended books/resources I could use to educate myself on all the ins and outs of doing that?

Thanks!

Hi and welcome!
Here ya go:

If I could have only 8 books
in my Library they would be :

1. Genetics of Chicken Colours-The Basics
http://chickencolours.com/

2. Genetics of Chicken Extremities
http://chickencolours.com/

3. APA 2010 Standard of Perfection
http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/store.htm

4. The Sussex Fowl
By Sharpe 1920 .
Sharpe was one of the 3 great secrateries of the Sussex Poultry Club
in England. The other 2 were Leo Outram and Judge Clem Watson.
Sharpe was a legendary Sussex breeder and originated the
Light Sussex. This book is a classic. ( read online free)
http://newcatalog.library.cornell.edu/catalog/6721632

5. 21st Century Poultry Breeding
by Grant Brereton
http://poultrykeeper.com/book-reviews/21st-century-poultry-breeding-book-review
http://www.amazon.com/Century-Poultry-Breeding-Grant-Brereton/dp/0947870571

6. Laws governing the breeding of standard fowls. c.1
by Card, Wetherell Henry. Published 1912
This is a small 55 page book. A treasure of distilled knowledge.
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=chi.087299559;view=1up;seq=5
(read online free)

7. The Light Sussex
by Broomhead, William White, 1875-
Published 1921
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003137332;view=2up;seq=4
W.W. Broomhead was one of the three Broomhead brothers who were noted poultry men in England. He was a Sussex expert and Judge for the Sussex Poultry Club. He later went on to become President of the Poultry Club of Britain. This little 8 page gem is a classic because of the author's distinguished reputation and his insightful knowledge of the breed. W.W. Broomhead also edited one of the editions of the Poultry Club Standards as well as the Sussex Standard itself.
It matters not which variety one has, this brochure's study of breed type applies to all. Type is the breed. Blood tells. ( read free online )

8.
American Poultry Advocate - Volume 26 - Feb. 1918 - Page 202
The Proper Color of Speckled Sussex
An article written by Mr. A. J. Falkenstein,
the leading English breeder of Speckled Sussex,
A speech given in 1917 ( read free online)
books.google.com/books?id=jCtJAAAAYAAJ
During this period, many Speckled Sussex had a more ginger colored
ground color rather than the desired dark color. Mr. Falkenstein
popularized the darker color and, following his lead, the Sussex fancy
moved the Speckled Sussex to the lovely mahogany bay ground color
we see today. You can see the change in the tobacco cards issued:
1911 : http://tinyurl.com/ppo2ske
1930's : http://tinyurl.com/mo6aaw2
One of the interesting parts of this speech are the instructions on
selecting for proper color while the chick is in chick down.

And for deeper study

9. the 3 DVD set
by Danne Honour
which includes much rare lit on the "Art of Breeding".

10. Art and Science in Breeding : Creating Better Chickens
by Margaret E. Derry.
A fantastic book on the development of poultry breeding by a
talented author who writes on the various histories of animal breeding.
Ms. Derry has a wonderful turn of the pen when writing about
the history of animal breeding. She has had published a total
of 6 books. These 3 books are listed in order of year published:

Bred for Perfection: Shorthorn Cattle, Collies and Arabian Horses since 1800 (2003)
By Margaret E. Derry
http://www.poplarlane.net/books/ani...e-collies-and-arabian-horses-since-1800-2003/

Art and Science in Breeding: Creating Better Chickens
By Margaret E. Derry
http://www.utppublishing.com/Art-and-Science-in-Breeding-Creating-Better-Chickens.html

and coming in Nov. 2014:
Masterminding Nature: The Breeding of Animals, 1750-2010
By Margaret E. Derry
http://www.utppublishing.com/Masterminding-Nature-The-Breeding-of-Animals-1750-2010.html

Bookfinder is a massive mega booksearch database. Been around a long time.
http://www.bookfinder.com/
Some of these books may be available as used editions for a good price. Beware if you find SOP's tho. The APA never relinquished their copyright on the SOP. Some fly-by-night reprinters have taken the old pre-1926 editions and reprinted them illegally. Nabu Press is one of them. Often they are cheap OCR copies with many typos because of the cheap scanning.
Best Success,
Karen and the Light Sussex
in western PA, USA

 

[Sunflowergirl]

Thank you 3riverschick! I am taking notes! =) Had actually stumbled on #4 and started reading on it.

 

[3riverschick]

Hi

,
More than welcome.
I really like this book too! So much in it. Falkenstein says the Speckled Sussex is the toughest color to breed.
because it is a tri-color variety. But really, it is basically a mottled Red Sussex. So we can find a lot of help on
ground color by reading the classic breeding advice on Red Sussex.
Best Regards,
Karen

 

[Sunflowergirl]

Hi

,
More than welcome.
I really like this book too! So much in it. Falkenstein says the Speckled Sussex is the toughest color to breed.
because it is a tri-color variety. But really, it is basically a mottled Red Sussex. So we can find a lot of help on
ground color by reading the classic breeding advice on Red Sussex.
Best Regards,
Karen

Thanks for that little bit of information! I had read that about the Speckled Sussex being the toughest color to breed! That "frightened" me a little, thinking maybe me as a newbie to tackling raising chickens to standard, should not be taking on something like a Speckled Sussex! But they are such beautiful birds to me!!! Thanks for the bit of encouragement!

 

[3riverschick]

Thanks for that little bit of information! I had read that about the Speckled Sussex being the toughest color to breed! That "frightened" me a little, thinking maybe me as a newbie to tackling raising chickens to standard, should not be taking on something like a Speckled Sussex! But they are such beautiful birds to me!!! Thanks for the bit of encouragement!

Hi Sunflowergirl,
It doesn't need to be scary. You just need to source your birds from the right fountainhead flocks. For instance in SQ SOP flocks in this country you want to be looking for vintage line-bred strains which win consistently in quality competition over multiple generations. In Speckled Sussex, it's all about the quality of the bird with which you found your flock. It takes many generations to stabilize the color genes so the birds have consistent proper plumage. In addition, one already has to have built the house first, accomplishing all this while keeping the classic Sussex breed silhouette.
There are 3 places in the US where you can get properly speckled large fowl Speckled Sussex. It takes many years to get the genes stable enough for the speckles to come out right. The birds with more speckles are called "gay", as in colorful . They get mated to birds who are more plain, less speckles. Speckled is a color balancing act. If you want the speckles to come out right, the ground color ( rich mahogany) must be correct and lack black "peppering" in the ground color. Anyway, the 4 places are :
1.Tony Albritton, Featherhills Farm, Idaho ( website)
2. Gary Overton, West Alexandria, Ohio ( see APA Judges Directory for contact info).
3. Walt Reichert, KY. ( see Kentuckiana Poultry Show results for contact info).
4. 4 actually. And from folk who have sourced their foundation flock directly from these 3 folk.
In this color, do not cross strains to found your flock. It is a challenging color. Choose a strain and line-breed on it. There is plenty of diversity in this color variety. If you are still worried, then choose Tony Albritton. He did an out cross to anther Speckled Sussex strain several years ago and has successfully integrated it into his show strain. It is not possible to found a SQ SOP flock with birds from any of the hatcheries. The amount of time it would take to grade these birds up to show quality would be way too long to make it any fun. Esp. when we have such superb birds available in the existing SOP flocks.

This is a great time of year to found a flock. The breeders are downsizing their flocks for overwintering and have nice started birds and retiring breeders for sale. Retiring breeders are a real good bet. Birds with a season or to left in them. Or birds which aren't needed any more because the breeder already has their descendants. Be up front with the seller and explain you are looking to found an SOP flock and line-breed on it. Explain you want a trio (2F,1M) or a Quad ( 2F,2M) that you can line-breed from. That way the seller can provide you with the diversity you need in your foundation birds. Work with the breeder for the next 2 seasons to set up your matings. That way you will get to know the strain with the best counsel. Once you have a couple of seasons under your belt, you will understand how the strain develops, when and how to cull, plus needs and virtues of the strain and individual birds. If you think you need an outcross, stop and check again with the breeder of your birds. It may just be you need to set up your breedings differently or switch to another breeding system to compensate for some lack in the system you are presently using.
If you are seeking Bantam SQ SOP Speckled Sussex. let me know and I will post a list of breeders to source from.
Best,
Karen
Waterford English Light Sussex
in western PA, USA

 

[Sunflowergirl]

Karen, I am LOVING all the information!!! And I am so excited!!! I have already been working with Mr. Albritton to get a shipment next year in the spring!!!

In this color, do not cross strains to found your flock. It is a challenging color. Choose a strain and line-breed on it.

What is a "strain" and what is "line-breeding"?

Would I be able to take my chicks and select mating pairs/groups to try to maintain the SOP?

(I hope I am not asking stupid questions!!! I know I still have more reading to do on proper terminology and all!!!)


Thanks!

 

[3riverschick]

Karen, I am LOVING all the information!!! And I am so excited!!! I have already been working with Mr. Albritton to get a shipment next year in the spring!!!




What is a "strain" and what is "line-breeding"?

Would I be able to take my chicks and select mating pairs/groups to try to maintain the SOP?

(I hope I am not asking stupid questions!!! I know I still have more reading to do on proper terminology and all!!!)


Thanks!

Hi

Sunflowergirl ,
The only stupid question is the one you don't ask .

Well I am very excited for you! Mr. Albrittion is a fine place to start out! Next thing you do is buy the SOP.
The 1st 40 pages are so educational! Including a wonderful glossary from which came the definitions below.
What is a "strain" and what is "line-breeding"?

1. Breed: An established group of individuals possessing similar characteristics , and when mated together
produce offspring with those same characteristics. A breed may include a number of varieties of the same
general weight , distinguished by different color plumage, or different types of combs, or a comb and color
as in Dorkings, and in some cases by bearded or non-bearded.
2. Variety: A sub-division of a breed. Differentiating characteristics include plumage color, comb type
or presence of beard and muffs.
3. Strain: Fowl of any breed or variety that have been bred as a closed population for a number of years
and which reproduce uniform chracteristics with marked regularity.
-----------------------------------------
From a separate source:
4. Types of breeding:
1. OUTCROSSING: Breeding together unrelated animals or animals that are less related than the average animals of a given breed, variety or strain. Outcrossing or crossbreeding is often defined as "The mating of animals that are members of the same breed, variety or strain but which show no relationship close up in the pedigree." Breeding together animals of different breeds or species is often also referred to as outcrossing or crossbreeding, but we are not really concerned with crossbreeding in that respect so much in this discussion. Sometimes simply crossing to another family line within the same strain (that is somewhat related but not as close) is referred to as outcrossing, and this is the safest way to add new blood while causing the least amount of retrogression in what you have accomplished in linbreeding.

2. LINEBREEDING: Breeding closely related animals, based on multiple pedigree crosses to a single exceptional animal. Linebreeding, is often defined as a breeding method usually directed toward keeping the offspring closely related to some highly admired ancestor, such as sire to daughter, son to mother, brother to sister, half-brother to half-sister, grandfather to granddaughter, grandson to grandmother, unlce to neice, nephew to aunt, cousin to cousin and so on. Technically linebreeding is just a systematic usage of inbreeding. ( Karen: in the early part of last century this was called "Outbreeding", obviously not the same as "outcrossing". Makes things clearer tho, if you are reading vintage books).

3. INBREEDING or CLOSE BREEDING: Breeding animals that are more closely related than the average animals of a given breed, variety or strain, such as sire to daughter, mother to son, full-brothers to full-sisters. Although it is a form of linebreeding, 'inbreeding' is often defined as "the mating of closely related individuals, such as sire to daughter, son to mother or full brother to full sister." Inbreeding is defined by some as a much closer cross between the "mating pair" than is linebreeding: son to mother, father to daughter or brother to sister. Some breeders would consider it inbreeding, others linebreeding, when crossing an animal to a half-brother or a half-sister or to one of the cousins, aunts, uncles or grandparents. Technically, there is a continuum from inbreeding to linebreeding just as there is a continuum in degree of relationship between animals of the same breed. As a result, it is sometimes very difficult to give the perfect definition.

INBREEDING ALSO BUT NOT CLOSE: Grandfather to granddaughter, grandson to grandmother, uncle to neice, aunt to nephew, cousin to cousin, half-brother to half-sister.

VERY CLOSE INBREEDING: Breeding daughters back to their sire for successive generations, sons back to their mother for successive generations, or full-brothers to full-sisters out of full-brothers and full-sisters for successive generations.
-----------------------------------------
4. Strain-Cross: Crossing different strains within a breed or variety.

Would I be able to take my chicks and select mating pairs/groups to try to maintain the SOP?
Yes . Tell Tony that is what you want to do and he will provide you with the birds to do it. Ask him to show
you how to set up the 1st 2 years breedings. Much less stress and much more surety of outcome that way.
You just get to enjoy the birds and getting to know your new flock. By the 3rd year, you will know the birds
and strain, be ready to make your own plans. Run them by Tony to double check.
Best,
Karen