show quality speckled sussex ??

[mrheinz77]

I'm so excited. I have eggs in the incubator from Walt Reickert and more eggs in the mail from another breeder (that got her stock from Gary Overton). She has more eggs available. Contact me if you want contact info for her.

 

[mrheinz77]

Congratulations to Walt Reickert on his Reserve Champion Large Fowl Speckled Sussex pullet at the Bluegrass Poultry Association Show April 7. It was nice to see this in the Poultry Press that came today.

 

[3riverschick]

Huge congrats to Walt! And very happy news for you too, since you have eggs from his stock.
Looks like the IA shows will be having some good entries at the winter shows, smile.
Best,
Karen

 

[cowchick11]

I'm excited to maybe have someone to exchange eggs with next year! Eagerly awaiting the arrival of my Poultry Press! Will get 3-4 week photos of my SS chicks this weekend.

 

[cowchick11]

Pictures! The SS will be 4 weeks Monday and Tuesday. They are in with my Easter hatch chicks that are some farmyard crosses, BBS Orpingtons and Lav. project Orpingtons.



My 8 SS chicks



I have two darker chicks and two with a lot of white on them at this point. The other four are somewhere in the middle of the others. I can't wait until their feathers change again!



Chicks in the new, so not clean, larger pen because they outgrew the brooder. They were attaching the cobwebs!

You can see the darkest one and the whitest one in this photo. The darkest one is more red with less spots.

 

[mrheinz77]

Looking good.

 

[GhostRider65]

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww love them baby pictures......
Well anyway, I just wanted to stop in and say hello, my beast is now almost a year, end of May..... he is good with the ladies and too protective, he attachs my hubby and 17 YO son, he tried doing it to me but found out I will beat him like a red headed step child............LOL well I held him down and plucked out a bunch of feathers, he hasn't even looked at me twice since............ still goes after the hubby and son and they have kicked at him , but he is quick so they usually miss....... he did try getting the 4 year old grandson, so he is in the butchering pen, but I just can't seem to do it..... I like his body size, color, and I have 2 hens that are worth breeding........so not sure if I will let him have a couple hens b4 butchering or not, maybe just to get a few more hens............ if he would just mellow out I would keep him.....ggggggggrrrrrrrrrr anyway he is 8.3 lbs and looks like this now

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,
I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I can see why you like this boy. His coloring is quite nice.
The essence of Sussex is breed type. Color always comes last. Breed type is inexorbinantly linked
to the production virtues which make the breed a Sussex. "Type makes the breed, color makes the variety".
Take a look at this rendering for the 2010
APA SOP.
http://katherineplumer.com/closeups/poultry/SOP/LLightSussex.html
Perhaps the hardest thing to breed for in Sussex is the long body. and the long back.
Here's a pic of a Croad Langshan, a more upright breed. http://tinyurl.com/d25ey8r
You can compare the 3pics by just opening the Langshan and Light Sussex pics, then
re-sizing the three pics side-by-side on your PC screen.
See the similarity of the Langshan to your boy as opposed to the Sussex male? It doesn't matter what color variety
the Sussex are, the type must all be identical. I understand completely how hard it is to get a
quality start in a heritage breed. Been there more than several times, sigh.
Ok, so many experts say color comes thru the male and type, structure thru the female.
Whether one subscribes to that or not, if one is going to breed more than 2 generations from
their flock, choice of breed type in the male is very important because he will sire females who
will pass type on to their chicks and so on. If one wants to cement quality breed type in their Sussex,
it has to be coming from both sides of the pedigree because of the sex-linked traits in poultry.
You can breed, using this boy and will still be struggling with type next generation. Or you can see about
getting an adult from one of the Tony Albrittion (ID) , Overton (OH ) or Walt Reichert (KY) flocks.
Such a male would be from a vintage line-bred gene pool with breed type which has
been winnowed for defects and set for virtues.
Breed your girls to him and then breed the female get back to him. The quality of your birds should rise quite quickly.
Here's a book by a revered poultryman of the old school. A veteran breeder and APA judge who explains
how to do this. The procedure is called in and out breeding. He also has real-world tips on breeding the speckled breeds.
http://archive.org/details/cu31924003158312
Now I realize you probably aren't having fun reading this. I understand completely. I guess I could just stay silent
or start being "overly polite" when you ask about your birds. However, I would rather share years of research with you.
I guess if that makes waves, so be it.
I remember the poultry folk who educated me when I didn't want to hear the news. It saved me lots of heartache later.
Warm Regards,
Karen

 

[math ace]

Thank you Karen for taking the time to write such a wonderful criteque.

This is one thread where the whole purpose is to learn how to identify "show quality" birds, specifically Speckled Sussex.
Those folks like you who have experience with the Sussex Breed have much to share with those folks (like me) who are just starting out with this breed.
It is ALWAYS difficult to HEAR things that set us back in our breeding programs. HOWEVER, truth be known, selecting the wrong pair of birds for mating will set a breeding program back further and quicker than anything else. I appreciate that you include the links to help folks educate themselves on what to look for.

Again, thank you Karen for sharing your knowledge with us....

Ghostrider65, Thank you for sharing pics of your rooster. LOVE his size. 8.5 lbs is great size. I, too, have had some issues with temperaments of the roosters in this breed. This is something that can be transferred genetically. I think we will ALL have an OBLIGATION to include temperament in the list of items that we cull for. I know Karen stresses BODY / Type first with selecting a bird. However, I think we have to pay attention to and cull for color issues that would be disqualifiers.

I have a black copper marans roo that I adore, but he has white undercoat issues. This is not a disqualifier, but a fault only. I have seen him produce sons that had white wing feather issues. Those I culled quickly because the white wing feather is a DQ in the show world for marans. Some had really nice body / type, but I just couldn't justify bringing in a MAJOR fault that would cause him and his offspring to get disqualified.

I hatched and raised around 30 sons from this rooster last year and kept NONE. I kept a few daughters and crossed them back to him. I am now raising a grandson with NO white undercoat and no white wing feathers.... I am keeping my fingers crossed that I have finally managed to balance type with color.

 

[math ace]

Hey Karen, Let me throw this out there and see what you think....

I have noticed that many of the SS roosters that I see have low wing sets. I looked at your links and saw that the Sussex drawings for the APA show a long back and a horizontal wing set. Whereas, the langshan photo shows a really short back and an almost vertical wing set..... Do you think the reason for the large number of low wing sets in the SS roos is due to their backs being too short?

If that is the case, could we correct the issue by finding a really long back female to mate the male to?