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showgirl- bowtie question

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by klf73, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. priszilla

    priszilla Chillin' With My Peeps

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    beautiful babies!!!!!
     
  2. peepsnbunnies

    peepsnbunnies Chillin' With My Peeps

    Mar 31, 2007
    Central Florida
    Wow! Such adorable babies!!! [​IMG] They seem to grow on you, before long you will want even more! Heehee It is part of the addiction! [​IMG]

    Lisa [​IMG]
     
  3. nnbreeder

    nnbreeder Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I recently read a study that I wished I would have saved but I didn't and it stated that the only way to tell whether a NN was Hetrozygous or Homozygous was to do a DNA test. Seems that either NaNa or Nana can have the bow-tie. The popular theory of origin for the NNs are the Madagascar Games and a stuffed specimen that I have seen pics of has the bow-tie. This bird is in a Museum in Northern France. [​IMG]
     
  4. Poulets De Cajun

    Poulets De Cajun Overrun With Chickens

    Nevermind.... I was mistaken.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2008
  5. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Sun City, California
    Cute chicks. [​IMG]

    Quote:Would have loved to see that study.. however there is another way- it can be discovered by test-mating.

    One easy way is to mate a NN to a non-naked necked bird. If the pair produces any non-naked chicks, it is proven heterozygote. All chicks having naked necks, probable homozygote- this proof becomes stronger the more chicks are hatched(10 at the very minimum.. 20-30 is far better). A good example of test-mating is breeding a showgirl to a silkie. If it produces both SG and silkies, then the showgirl is a heterozygote.

    I have bred by now 300+ chicks from naked necked matings done various ways and I can assure that homozygotes can and do have either bowties or totally bare necks. In fact MOST homozygous naked necks have bowties, those would be the ones with small bowties with very visible naked areas below it and also exposed shoulders & crop. This visible difference is also apparent even in day olds- homozygotes have a pair of clearly separate and small puffs while heterozygote chicks have a much larger and "solid looking" fuzz patch on front of the necks. Once you recognize it, it becomes pretty easy to see.

    There's always a "but". Some unrelated genes do affect the nakedness on a bird- peacomb is one. Peacomb also has the effect of reducing the overall number of feathers on a bird.. and also most heterozygous naked necks with peacombs look "very naked" exactly like the bird pictured above. I would dare guess that bird is a heterozygote despite being pretty naked, due to it also having a peacomb.

    I have not done very many breedings with rosecombs, from what I see it appears rosecomb does make for more naked heterozygotes. It would explain why many heterozygote showgirls still have a fair amount of naked areas and also why homozyotes are bare necked, it's an added effect from the rosecomb. (most silkie combs are in actuality modified rosecombs).

    Lastly, I tried breeding for total bare necks from(single combed) hatchery, backyard and various show stocks that had bowties, did not have success.. did manage to produce some birds that had only a single feather on each side of the neck but did not get any naturally bare necks.

    Then in an egg trade, I got a batch of total backyard mongrels- leg feathering, crests, silky, etc. To my surprise those birds very easily produced total bare necks- even the single combed ones. Due to this group of birds I think there is something different about producing total bare necks(on single combed birds).. maybe there is another gene or ?? involved. They also prove the claim that only the "pure ones have totally bare necks" is false. Those birds were very obvious mutts.


    Quote:I have heard that claim several times too.. Often also I hear claim that the original stock had totally bare necks, however this bird shows a bowtie.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2008
  6. nnbreeder

    nnbreeder Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Don't you just love it? About the time that you think you have a slight handle on what is going on the birds throw you a curve ball. Now the wife prefers a bow-tie but I like the featherless look that just has to run down to about even with the legs. I pretty much breed for type and color for the show pen and don't pay close attention to the amount of nakedness on the parent stock. There has probably been more studies done on the NN breed than any other breed of chicken but if you research them be sure to type in Naked Neck Chickens or what pops up might melt your eyeballs!!
     
  7. Oh my, that's the closest I've seen to a couple of NN's I got from from my 'Giant Naked Neck' project!

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The pullet that 'matches' him just started laying and lays a green egg!
    [​IMG]
    Lisa
     
  8. The Chicken Lady

    The Chicken Lady Moderator Staff Member

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    West Michigan
    Giant Naked Neck? I thought it was a vulture! [​IMG] (In a good way...).
     
  9. [​IMG] Thank you! That's the plan! The 'other' name for this project is 'Build-A-Buzzard'.
    The cross is Jersey Giant X {Ameraucana x (Naked Neck x Silkie)}.
    I'm really excited about going to the next generation with the big NN black-skinned birds from the cross.

    Thanks for the info. I thought it was either one way or the other.
    [​IMG]
    Lisa
     
  10. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:Yes I love it.. Early on I bred naked necks to just about everything, to see what the results would be. Got some very odd looking ones.. Amongst the oddest ever were pea combed naked necks with huge head knobs from Polish, the peacomb effect on feather density is quite obvious on those- they have a serious "receding hairline" look with large naked area on front of the knob and also along the bottom towards the back. Mid and back part of the knob was feathered normally, making for a very odd visual effect lol..

    Some did turn out rather "cool"- for example bantam rumpless naked necks with modern game legs look rather a bit like rheas, especially red and brown hens. The frizzled ones always got quite a big reaction. Poor things tended to get cold on chilly days though.

    Quote:I like both, although I do have a slight prefernce for a very small bowtie, sometimes I think it gives "balance" somehow.. Not a fan of the heterozygotes with big honking bowties though.. I've started trying to breed what I have back to the standard type.. would like to see pictures of your show stock? There don't seem to be any poultry shows in my area so I don't get to see shows, much less what is considered show winning naked necks..

    Had a hatch today, including two blues.. will include picture to show the difference in bowtie size in heterozygote(left) and homozygote(right-both are single combed btw):

    [​IMG]

    Lisa's bird is good example of peacomb making heterozygous NN look almost as if they are homozygous.

    Quote:ROFL! Too true, too true!
     

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