Sick chickens, official necropsy report... Any input?

[AnneInTheBurbs]

@Eggcessive I had posted about this in another thread, thought you might want the details. Thanks in advance!

Okay, I’ll try to keep this brief. I have approximately 30 chickens, and 7 turkeys. Mixed ages, but most at least a year old.

- I had brought a sick chicken into my flock unknowingly over a year ago, it was pouring rain when I picked her up, so I was unable to look at her well. Her symptoms were bubbly eyes, swollen face/sinuses, lethargy etc. I euthanized her after a week of trial care. I had tried to keep her quarantined in a garage. However at the time, my chickens were free ranging, and I did not do it correctly.

-Since then, I have a had a hen or two get a similar facial swelling/upper respiratory issue. I have been able to treat these effectively with Vetrx. I did have one very old Silkie that passed away, I thought she had died of old age. I am not so sure now, she had a very foul smell coming from her head before she passed, and diarrhea. I did not autopsy her because she was very old, so I thought it unnecessary.

- Several weeks ago, I adopted a few more birds form the same individual. One of the birds (a BCM) has a terrible breathing sound, and makes a sneeze/cough occasionally that makes her gasp for air. I had considered euthanizing her, but I tried treating her with the Vetrx first. Her condition did not improve, but she still ate, drank and seemed otherwise healthy.

- Since then, I have had a few more birds get sick. One was a young, previously healthy Silkie, approximately 8 months old. She had the putrid odor coming from her head, along with nasal discharge, low appetite, diarrhea etc. All three of my young turkeys are now sick, with sneezing and (non smelly) sticky nasal discharge. One also has a swollen face. Another chicken has become ill also, with rales, or rattly sounding breathing. She seems to have lost weight and have a lowered appetite as well.

So after doing a lot of reading on Coryza and MG here and other places, I figured I probably have Coryza and also MG in my flock. I have decided if this is the case, I will cull my entire flock, disinfect the premises, and start again in spring, with chicks and or/hatching eggs. I will also keep a closed flock from here on out.


Before I made this decision, I euthanized two birds and sent them for testing at Penn State University Diagnostic lab. I culled the terrible sounding BCM, and a white Silkie Roo that had a rattled breathing sound, and also the foul smelling head. He seemed fairly healthy otherwise, but as I have other Roosters, he had to go eventually anyways.

The preliminary autopsy looked pretty normal, and I just got back an intermediate reposts also. It shows no MG or Coryza so far. I’m very confused, and I am going to call today to see if anything can be explained thus far. Some tests are still pending. I also sent blood samples with the corpses for cultures.

Here are the results below:

 

[AnneInTheBurbs]

This is the preliminary report:

 

[AnneInTheBurbs]

Here is the intermediate report I just received this morning.

 

[dheltzel]

Maybe you will not need to cull your flock after all!
How much did you spend for the necropsys?
I have considered sending off a few birds that have died with no symptoms, but I figured it would be inconclusive or a heart attack, not something that might help me prevent future problems.

 

[AnneInTheBurbs]

Maybe you will not need to cull your flock after all!
How much did you spend for the necropsys?
I have considered sending off a few birds that have died with no symptoms, but I figured it would be inconclusive or a heart attack, not something that might help me prevent future problems.

I’m not sure of the entire cost so far. The shipping was probably the most expensive. 14.5 lbs. of 2 chicken corpses and ice was $86 to ship next day. By end of day would have been $44, but they needed it in the morning so they could look at it that day.

The necropsy fee is $30 a bird, plus there is an “ascension” fee, not sure if that is for paperwork, etc. I also submitted two blood tests, so I’m sure they cultures for those will be extra, but I’love let you know when I find out.

The website is www.padls.org.

It would be nice if I could just treat the birds and not have to cull anyone. Hopefully.

 

[dawg53]

I'm sorry you're going through this. All the symptoms you described fit the description of coryza and/or MG, and they are what I wouldve suspected if they were my birds.
Keep in mind that there are other tests pending and hopefully they will be negative as well.
Do you think it's possible fungus or mold spores might be an issue, or excessive ammonia fumes?

 

[Eggcessive]

I did a little reading about proteus that the report said was overgrown in the trachea so much that it prevented isolation of haemophilis bacteria. Proteus can be found in guts of wild birds and carried in to chickens. If it spreads to the respiratory tract, that can be deadly. Proteus is similar to E.coli, a gram negative rod. It really smells bad, so that might be the answer to the bad odor.

I cannot see where they tested for coryza in the lab reports (they said it was negative.) The tests for mycoplasma MG are still pending. Two tests are usually done on mycoplasma called Elisa and PCR. Also tests for several biruses are pending as well.

Your chickens tested positive for a lot coccidia, meaning coccidiosis was present. They also tested positive for heterakis, which is cecal worms, and those can carry histomoniasis or blackhead, which is especially serious in turkeys.

I am not a vet, but an RN, and am a little familiar with lab reports. I am still going to look for the coryza testing, in case there is new terminology for the bacteria that cause it.

In all though, it looks like you may have proteus, a difficult to treat bacteria. Baytril might be necessary to treat, but usually since it is a secondary infection in the trachea from the gut, it has spread through the air sacs to organs, such as liver, kidneys, and other.

Second there is coccidiosis, that I would treat with Corid or Sulfa antibiotics.

Third, your chickens had cecal worms which can be treated with Vabazen or fenbendazole (SafeGuard, Panacur.)

Edited to say there is also staphylococcus, a type that causes hemorrhaging, in the liver and sinus. So I really think these two chickens were doomed. You did the right thing to cull them.

 

[Eggcessive]

Haemophilis paragallinarium is the bacteria that causes coryza, and they have not been able to isolate that. Two of the cultures were overgrown with proteus which tends to spread all over, and in those two cultures, they were not able to even see them. But it looks like in the other cultures of the trachea, sinuses, and the coanal split (roof of the mouth) there was no coryza.

Thank you for posting the report, and I will look for the final report when you post it. This was a complicated 2 cases, and these birds were overwhelmed by sepsis.

 

[AnneInTheBurbs]

Thanks for the responses, and sorry for my delay. It has been so busy around here, and now that the weather is nice, I have even taking full advantage to clean up the yard.

I'm sorry you're going through this. All the symptoms you described fit the description of coryza and/or MG, and they are what I wouldve suspected if they were my birds.
Keep in mind that there are other tests pending and hopefully they will be negative as well.
Do you think it's possible fungus or mold spores might be an issue, or excessive ammonia fumes?

Thanks, they did both test negative for MG and Coryza, so I don’t think I’m dealing with that. I suspect now, after talking with the vet, that it may have been a combination of infectious bronchitis and some other minor issues like worms.

I did a little reading about proteus that the report said was overgrown in the trachea so much that it prevented isolation of haemophilis bacteria. Proteus can be found in guts of wild birds and carried in to chickens. If it spreads to the respiratory tract, that can be deadly. Proteus is similar to E.coli, a gram negative rod. It really smells bad, so that might be the answer to the bad odor.

I cannot see where they tested for coryza in the lab reports (they said it was negative.) The tests for mycoplasma MG are still pending. Two tests are usually done on mycoplasma called Elisa and PCR. Also tests for several biruses are pending as well.

Your chickens tested positive for a lot coccidia, meaning coccidiosis was present. They also tested positive for heterakis, which is cecal worms, and those can carry histomoniasis or blackhead, which is especially serious in turkeys.

I am not a vet, but an RN, and am a little familiar with lab reports. I am still going to look for the coryza testing, in case there is new terminology for the bacteria that cause it.

In all though, it looks like you may have proteus, a difficult to treat bacteria. Baytril might be necessary to treat, but usually since it is a secondary infection in the trachea from the gut, it has spread through the air sacs to organs, such as liver, kidneys, and other.

Second there is coccidiosis, that I would treat with Corid or Sulfa antibiotics.

Third, your chickens had cecal worms which can be treated with Vabazen or fenbendazole (SafeGuard, Panacur.)

Edited to say there is also staphylococcus, a type that causes hemorrhaging, in the liver and sinus. So I really think these two chickens were doomed. You did the right thing to cull them.

Wow, thanks for that information on Proteus. Could you send me the link, so I can read about it for myself?

I had mistakenly thought that Cocci was only a problem with young poultry, but I am now treating everyone just as a precaution. I will also worm them all this week as well. I bought the Safeguard liquid concentrate, but I have to check the site for correct dosing.

Where did you see that they had Staph, I can’t seem to find that. I would think that is about her bacteria that is everywhere also.

Haemophilis paragallinarium is the bacteria that causes coryza, and they have not been able to isolate that. Two of the cultures were overgrown with proteus which tends to spread all over, and in those two cultures, they were not able to even see them. But it looks like in the other cultures of the trachea, sinuses, and the coanal split (roof of the mouth) there was no coryza.

Thank you for posting the report, and I will look for the final report when you post it. This was a complicated 2 cases, and these birds were overwhelmed by sepsis.

I was able to speak with a Vet on Wednesday, and he was very helpful. His accent made it a little hard to understand him, but I think I got the idea.

He said both birds looked pretty healthy, other than the noise in their breathing that I had noted. As it said in the report, they both had good breast tissue, and nothing was unusual about their other organs. He said he did not see any physical evidence of the Coryza, and he said for the Mg, that they run an antibody test. He did not see any typical signs of MG also; he did say that if they had acute Mg, they may not have had anitbodies, so the test would be a false negative. He mentioned also that to run cultures or thoroughly test for MG would take weeks and is not very practical in a laboratory.

When I mentioned I suspected MG because I have a few turkeys with swollen sinuses, he said that is more indicative of Mg, and that they could possibly have it.

I asked him what he thought my chickens had and he said it could have been infectious bronchitis, which is why they sounded so terrible, but were still otherwise in good shape.

Thankfully, my one hen who had a rattle and sounded terrible, seems to be on the mend, and the rattle was gone last night. I have been giving her and the turkeys Vetrx orally and topically. Perhaps it took a bit longer to work, but now she is better? Time will tell. The turkeys also seem better, less sneezing. I also found this article which I had bookmarked before, which seemed like a good solution. It recommends using Vetricyn antibiotic eye drops (used for dogs and cats) to treat sinus infections through access in the eye.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...e-sinus-lump-swelling-cure-treatment.1156995/


The Doctor said they were still waiting for the results on the rest of cultures, and that I should be getting a final report within a week. I would recommend this service to anyone, if finances allow. The doctor was so kind and experienced. He also said they would be happy to help my vet prescribe something, if warranted. I will update as soon as I get the final result and analysis.

 

[Eggcessive]

In post 3, page 2 of 3 states that there is coagulase negative staph—a scanty amount in both the orbital sinus and the liver.

Here is some info about proteus mirabilis bacteria being spreading in cultures, and having a foul odor:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteus_mirabilis